Of course the reason they wanted to stop the "yutes" as Joe Pesci would say, is because they were holding their hands at their waists, and the LEO's thought they might be concealing handguns. When approached by the ATF agent and the Lorain cop the kids went into the house. The Lorain cop demanded the mother send the kids outside for questioning. She dared to ask why, and was told jaywalking.
I'm just guessing but if the mom had gone inside and sent the kids out the kids probably aren't going to go outside carrying a gun, so what is the point of demanding this at that point anyway?
It should be noted the cop and ATF agent didn't actually see any guns, just the fact that the kids had their hands at the waist like they might've had one.
I personally know someone who may have stopped an armed robbery of him simply because when the guy approached him at an ATM he put his hand on his waist like he had a gun, and the guy walked back to his car and drove off. The guy who had walked up had been sitting in his car in a parking space before the other guy walked up to the ATM, so if the guy in the car really wanted to use the ATM he could've done so well before the first guy walked up to it. Granted, this was just a bluff but sometimes bluffs work, and not just in poker. The most famous case is Ronald Reagan pointing an unloaded 45 at a guy attempting to attack a nurse. I also know of other cases where criminals were scared off at either the sight of a gun or thinking someone had a gun. I know of a guy who was picking up his (now) wife from a pizza place that was near closing time, and a suspicious guy approached. When he saw the guy had his hand concealed inside his jacket at the waist like was getting ready to draw a gun the suspicious guy approached. It turned out the suspicious exactly met the description of a guy the police wanted for a string of robberies, same unique clothes, same tats. In this case though the guy actually did have a gun, he just hadn't drawn it yet and the robber didn't want to press the point, I guess preferring easy victims. So if I lived in that neighborhood and couldn't legally carry, I might be tempted to fake a gun too while walking around. Not saying it's a good idea, I can just understand why someone would want to do it.
Anyway, when the cop approached the mother the cop never said "we suspect the kids were carrying guns" he said they were jaywalking, mainly because that's the only crime they could truthfully testify to at that moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-dG_iyHQI
https://chroniclet.com/news/343169/coup ... pact-team/
ATF agent and Lorian cop team up to catch jaywalkers
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
-
- Posts: 4782
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
- Location: Western Ohio
- schmieg
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5751
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
- Location: Madeira, Ohio
Re: ATF agent and Lorian cop team up to catch jaywalkers
If I recall correctly, John Wayne held a Russian spy for the FBI with a non working prop gun. Of course, the FBI agents were in the next room monitoring what was going on.
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
-
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:32 pm
- Location: South of I-70
Re: ATF agent and Lorian cop team up to catch jaywalkers
The first problem is the Lorain police department signed a federal taskforce agreement with the ATF which deputizes the Lorain police as federal police. This is happening all over the country. This is dangerous.
Second, jaywalking is a minor-misdemeanor, for the most part a non-arrestable infraction. See ORC 2935.26. used as a canard to perform a Terry stop. And to perform a Terry stop pat-down the must articulate that the person is armed AND dangerous, both. Also, jaywalking does not lead to exigent circumstances. Once the kids were in the front yard, curtilage, the cops needed a warrant.
And third, jaywalking in an unconstitutional law. ORC 4511.01(X) (X) "Pedestrian" means any natural person afoot. "Pedestrian" includes a personal delivery device as defined in section 4511.513 of the Revised Code unless the context clearly suggests otherwise.
The state cannot turn a constitutional protected right into a privilege that can be regulated. A "natural person afoot" has a right to travel, free movement. Then the state tries to regulate a "personal delivery device". The problem with that is a "personal delivery device" as defined in the law falls under the ADA. It is used to assist a natural person just like a cane.
We are living in a police state.
Second, jaywalking is a minor-misdemeanor, for the most part a non-arrestable infraction. See ORC 2935.26. used as a canard to perform a Terry stop. And to perform a Terry stop pat-down the must articulate that the person is armed AND dangerous, both. Also, jaywalking does not lead to exigent circumstances. Once the kids were in the front yard, curtilage, the cops needed a warrant.
And third, jaywalking in an unconstitutional law. ORC 4511.01(X) (X) "Pedestrian" means any natural person afoot. "Pedestrian" includes a personal delivery device as defined in section 4511.513 of the Revised Code unless the context clearly suggests otherwise.
The state cannot turn a constitutional protected right into a privilege that can be regulated. A "natural person afoot" has a right to travel, free movement. Then the state tries to regulate a "personal delivery device". The problem with that is a "personal delivery device" as defined in the law falls under the ADA. It is used to assist a natural person just like a cane.
We are living in a police state.
-
- Posts: 4782
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
- Location: Western Ohio
Re: ATF agent and Lorian cop team up to catch jaywalkers
What I don't get is what the ATF agent and the Lorain cop hoped to achieve at that point if the kids had come out of the house. A pat down is not very likely to be fruitful, they wouldn't likely come out of the house still carrying something illegal for them to have at that point. If questioned they could just lie.Bearable wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:25 am The first problem is the Lorain police department signed a federal taskforce agreement with the ATF which deputizes the Lorain police as federal police. This is happening all over the country. This is dangerous.
Second, jaywalking is a minor-misdemeanor, for the most part a non-arrestable infraction. See ORC 2935.26. used as a canard to perform a Terry stop. And to perform a Terry stop pat-down the must articulate that the person is armed AND dangerous, both. Also, jaywalking does not lead to exigent circumstances. Once the kids were in the front yard, curtilage, the cops needed a warrant.
And third, jaywalking in an unconstitutional law. ORC 4511.01(X) (X) "Pedestrian" means any natural person afoot. "Pedestrian" includes a personal delivery device as defined in section 4511.513 of the Revised Code unless the context clearly suggests otherwise.
The state cannot turn a constitutional protected right into a privilege that can be regulated. A "natural person afoot" has a right to travel, free movement. Then the state tries to regulate a "personal delivery device". The problem with that is a "personal delivery device" as defined in the law falls under the ADA. It is used to assist a natural person just like a cane.
We are living in a police state.
-
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:32 pm
- Location: South of I-70
Re: ATF agent and Lorian cop team up to catch jaywalkers
It doesn't matter anymore. The police don't care about your rights. Example below:M-Quigley wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:35 amWhat I don't get is what the ATF agent and the Lorain cop hoped to achieve at that point if the kids had come out of the house. A pat down is not very likely to be fruitful, they wouldn't likely come out of the house still carrying something illegal for them to have at that point. If questioned they could just lie.Bearable wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:25 am The first problem is the Lorain police department signed a federal taskforce agreement with the ATF which deputizes the Lorain police as federal police. This is happening all over the country. This is dangerous.
Second, jaywalking is a minor-misdemeanor, for the most part a non-arrestable infraction. See ORC 2935.26. used as a canard to perform a Terry stop. And to perform a Terry stop pat-down the must articulate that the person is armed AND dangerous, both. Also, jaywalking does not lead to exigent circumstances. Once the kids were in the front yard, curtilage, the cops needed a warrant.
And third, jaywalking in an unconstitutional law. ORC 4511.01(X) (X) "Pedestrian" means any natural person afoot. "Pedestrian" includes a personal delivery device as defined in section 4511.513 of the Revised Code unless the context clearly suggests otherwise.
The state cannot turn a constitutional protected right into a privilege that can be regulated. A "natural person afoot" has a right to travel, free movement. Then the state tries to regulate a "personal delivery device". The problem with that is a "personal delivery device" as defined in the law falls under the ADA. It is used to assist a natural person just like a cane.
We are living in a police state.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... MMYYajwLms
and this:
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... LfQCp6SwEU
and this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqtwV7WfosA
This kind of stuff is happing on a daily basis. Qualified immunity promotes this stuff.
-
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:51 am
- Location: SW Ohio
- Contact: