AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13th

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Brian D.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by Brian D. »

In Ohio, yes.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by JustaShooter »

bignflnut wrote:Is it not the law's point that if one has any alcohol in the system, they are impaired and has therefore forfeited RKBA?
Actually, no (unless in a Class D establishment). Otherwise, you would be guilty of OVI if you have consumed any alcohol since both statutes use the same language.

There is a legal standard of impairment, and it is not "any alcohol". However, there are certainly law enforcement officers and judges who are of the same opinion/understanding as you, so even if you can technically do so legally, you may still pay a price.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by JustaShooter »

Brian D. wrote:In Ohio, yes.
Well, not really, unless in a Class D establishment. See my above reply.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote:
Brian D. wrote:In Ohio, yes.
Well, not really, unless in a Class D establishment. See my above reply.

{inappropriate language}, I KNOW THAT
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Brian D.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

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Post with fbomb shows up thanks Jeff Garvas Fix the board!
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Brian D.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

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NOW OFCC SELF APPOINTED PRESIDENT FOR LIFE JEFF GARVAS
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JustaShooter
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by JustaShooter »

Brian D. wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Brian D. wrote:In Ohio, yes.
Well, not really, unless in a Class D establishment. See my above reply.

{inappropriate language}, I KNOW THAT
Certainly wasn't clear from your post. Calm down, sheesh.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

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Brian D. wrote:Post with fbomb shows up thanks Jeff Garvas Fix the board!
The board software redacted the profanity as designed, not sure what you want fixed.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote:
Brian D. wrote:Post with fbomb shows up thanks Jeff Garvas Fix the board!
The board software redacted the profanity as designed, not sure what you want fixed.
I angrily profanely messaged Jeff Garvas last night. He's trying to fix the logging out all the time glitch.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Brian D.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote: Certainly wasn't clear from your post. Calm down, sheesh.
The glitch may not be fixed yet. Playing nice ain't always my style.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by M-Quigley »

UPDATE TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC:

There is supposed to be a court ruling around March 24th! The reason allegedly is that although ATF said in their final rule that they were giving owners 120 days to be in compliance, somewhere in another part of the rule the ATF gave
themselves the discretion to actually enforce violations on owners after 60 days, or 2 months earlier. So technically in April an owner in April might think that they have another 2 months to do something if there is no injunction and the ATF could in theory bust their door down, kick or shoot their dog, arrest the owner and confiscate the gun. :roll: No implying that they would do that of course, just that it's possible. The case is Waterson versus ATF. Although the Judge did not issue an injunction now, the judge might issue one in March, within the 60 day timeline, or might rule against the ATF altogether.

There is one potential error I noticed from the plantiffs filing. They claim the ATF only mentioned 2 instances of pistols with braces being used in crimes, but that is NOT what the ATF said. The ATF said pistols with braces were used in 2 mass shootings. Another lawyer on Youtube mentioned the ATF has traced pistols 153 times in the last 12 years, since braces have been used, and plain old ordinary handguns get traced thousands of time each year. There have more traces involving hunting type shotguns than pistols with braces, yet not even Biden is talking about banning those guns. Not all traces are used by criminals either Mas Ayoob mentioned recently a homeowner used a AR pistol with a brace to shoot and kill a home invader, but it still counts as a "trace". When I was an FFL 100% of the traces done on guns I sold were used to defend against criminals, not used by criminals, and all were eventually returned to their owners.
The plantiffs basic point is still correct, that the ATF doesn't have the authority to change a definition of a law merely based on some alleged criminal misuse, that falls under the legislative branch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzFqLJGbdDE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by M-Quigley »

ANOTHER UPDATE: According to the ATF there are supposedly pistols braces that someone can attach that DO NOT turn a pistol into a SBR. The ATF gave a brace rule training question and answer seminar (keywords ATf brace rule training) on youtube , at the 38:45 mark there is this Q&A

Question: "Do you have any examples of firearms with braces that are not considered SBR's under this rule?"

ANSWER: "Yeah, in fact he has seen some of these, unfortunately they haven't been marketed simply because they lack the rear surface area to be good for shouldering the weapon. So there are a few examples, the federal register does have at least one if not two examples of some of the things we've seen that would not qualify as SBR's under the new rule."

Of course the ATF agent didn't mention WHERE in the final rule it was. :roll: I have read the entire new rule and couldn't find any examples of braces that were allowed to be attached. Just because I didn't see it doesn't mean that it isn't in there somewhere however, maybe I missed it. I did a google search and came up with nothing. Perhaps there is a classified top secret part of the final rule that is only available in Joe Biden's garage?

There were a couple of braces that the ATF said were okay under the old form 4999, but it clearly states in the final rule the criteria in the form 4999 has been replaced with "similar to" this or "similar to" that, :roll: Anyway, does anyone have any idea what the ATF agent could've been referring to? Is there really something out there that the ATF approves of or would approve if it were marketed?
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13t

Post by JustaShooter »

This is the first I've heard of that, and question whether the agent was speaking from a position of knowledge - or was simply lying.
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13th

Post by M-Quigley »

UPDATE:

A couple of posts above this one I mentioned in one of the many lawsuits one of the plantiffs (the FPC) was going to ask for a temporary restraining order. Just recently the Judge handed down a decision on the TRO and the answer was no. One of the criteria was that the plaintiffs had a substantial chance of winning the lawsuit and the Judge in his opinion denied that. It's looking like it's going to be the bump stock ban all over again, with the 5th circuit deciding (someday, months or years from now) yes or no. Even then, it's only going to apply to a couple of states. So far all the various lawsuits that I'm aware of are in the 5th circuit area, unlike the bump stock issue. If the ATF wins in the 5th circuit the chances seem low that other circuit courts will decide differently. :( Look at all the wins for ATF at the other circuit courts and the Bump stock issue was clearly illegal, clearly making new law. The issue of braces is a little different, because ATF is using the part of the law "made or remade to be fired from the shoulder" and the Judge who just denied the TRO is basically shouting Chevron deference for the ATF.

IDK at this time if one of the other plantiffs in their lawsuits, like the SAF for example, have even asked for a TRO yet. Anyway the clock runs out in 2 months from today someone to do one of the things ATF says you must do in order to avoid 10 years in prison. One of the things someone could do is simply remove the brace and store it away from the pistol, but when the ATF was asked how or where the brace had to be stored to avoid a "constructive possession" charge, the ATF said that they would decide that on a case by case basis, they refused to give a standard to avoid an arrest.
Imagine a Sheriff pulling you over on a road with no speed limit signs and Sheriff Buford T. Justice says, "Boy, you were speeding so much it's reckless operation and I gotta take you in." You ask what the speed limit is and he replies, "I just decide that on a case by case basis." :(

If ATF loses in the 5th circuit, would the ATF decide not to appeal it simply to avoid losing with SCOTUS and making the loss nationwide? If so what kind of message would that send? Bump stocks and braces are legal in 2 states but not the rest of the country?

Also, even if the ATF loses in the 5th circuit, would they even obey the ruling? They seem to be ignoring it with the bump stock ruling.
Despite the Cargill case now being officially closed, the ATF still declined to comment but directed The Texan to the agency’s enforcement policies on its website implying the agency is still enforcing the ban and treating the stocks as unregistered machine guns.

This case comes as other similar challenges are being mounted to a Biden administration rule banning pistol braces, with several lawsuits underway in federal district courts across Texas.
https://thetexan.news/texas-federal-cou ... -legality/
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Re: AG Garland announced pistol brace rule on friday the 13th

Post by M-Quigley »

b.t.w. if someone reads my post above and it appears I bolded the entire bottom half the post, I did not. I only bolded a few words and I went to edit to double check to see if I accidentally bolded the entire bottom half. The bottom half appears to be bolded on my screen however. :?:
Maybe it's just my computer and I'll check it with another device later.
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