Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Anyone using a red dot sight on their concealed carry firearm? Pros and Cons?

I am considering moving this direction due to the fact that I have to use reading glasses to see the front sight.

I've been looking at the Leupold Delta point as an option for my carry pistol.

I know NavyChief has one and think it's on his carry gun. I have considered one for a while due to the same problem. My vision is fine except right at the range of an extended gun and then it's hard to focus. I just haven't broken down and dropped the cash required to do one.

Yeah, I'm suffering from the same issue as you, and am also seeking solutions. I wear progressive lenses (in safety glass & frames) because I meed help at longer distances as well, but unless I want to tilt my head way up that doesn't help with sights. I've been thinking about talking to my eye doctor about getting a pair with the top section set up to be able to focus on handgun sights.

IAShooters wrote:I am considering moving this direction due to the fact that I have to use reading glasses to see the front sight.

I can see the front sight without reading glasses...both front sights unless I close one eye.

I used the early, scope type red dots in some competitions many years ago. There's quite a learning curve.
Today's choices are lighter, less bulky, clearer, and mounted at about the same height as conventional sights. All that is good, but...there's still that pesky learning curve. A good friend of mine has been trying to switch over to optics, but he gets frustrated and goes back to iron sights for a month. So, then he breaks out the red dot, and he's back at day one.

Hi
I have progressive lenses and sighting is a chore. I use a ctc laser on my MP9c and am happy with it.
Fits on the grip and there are no holster problems..

Steve

Pops Fun wrote:Hi
I have progressive lenses and sighting is a chore. I use a ctc laser on my MP9c and am happy with it.
Fits on the grip and there are no holster problems..

Steve

Same here. Got the CTC lasers on a couple of carry guns. Helps with the bifocal problem and helps in low light conditions. In bright light the red laser washes out but in bright light I don't have trouble with the iron sights.

Been using them for about three years. I love them and highly recommend them.

Invest in a green laser - if at all possible - if you go the route of lasers. The ability to use one in unconventional/unorthodox shooting positions in much brighter ambient conditions is invaluable.

If your eyesight is really poor, the slide-mounted red-dot may or may not be a viable solution. It becomes less viable when target boundary discrimination is the bigger problem, or if your eyesight is unable to resolve the dot sufficiently.

That said, for most "aging eyes," the dot can be a tremendous help. However, there are some concerns.

First is how the sight mounts to the slide. There's two weak spots, and neither can be ignored - sub-standard designs/solutions in either the sight-to-base or base-to-slide interface will result in a multitude of problems, and while guns that have seen this type of optic in-use for a while (i.e. the Glock platform) pretty much have things worked out, others (like the Springfield XD/XDm) are just starting to see issues crop up with their early adopters, as they truly climb up in round-count.

Second is the absolute durability of the optic itself. So far, the vast bulk of the data lies with the Trijicon RMRs. A search in use-heavy communities like M4Carbine.net, Primary & Secondary, etc., will give you a better understanding of where/when people have seen problems as well as their varying success in resolving the issue. The RMRs are truly pretty darned bomb-proof, but if it were my money, on my gun(s), I would honestly reserve one gun/optic copy for training and keep a copy gun/optic for defensive use - sure, something untoward and unexpected can always happen to the reserved defensive/EDC copy, but not beating on it at the range in practice or out there in a training class or competition *_should_* hopefully mean that it's got less chances of going belly-up.

From watching my friends learn these sights, there's definitely a learning curve to be powered through: but to-a-person, they've all found enhancement to their performance with the switch (after diligent practice to get to that state, of-course) that could not be accounted for had they devoted that same amount of time to further practicing with their ironsights.

[ As an aside, be sure you thoroughly consider the sight's technical specs before you buy. Differences in how the dot is illuminated, etc., can make a tremendous difference where it comes to the usability of the sight versus ambient conditions. ]

It's really not something that you can just pick up a slide-mounted-dot gun and shoot a few rounds and say "OMG this is AWESOME!" or "Yuck! I hate it!" The end result - I have no doubt - will be a positive one, but you'll have to climb that learning curve, and you'll have to dedicate yourself to it.

----

Hoping that Lucius Clay and some of the other big hitters with slide-mounted RDSs will stop-in to offer their training and tech tips.

Do you use optics-sighted handguns, Allen ? If so, how much? Has one become your everyday carry? Back up traditional sights on it too? Just your personal current circumstances please, not references to experiences of others. What say you?

Sights are not even necessary on a carry gun IMO.

Double3 wrote:Sights are not even necessary on a carry gun IMO.

When you really get down to it.

I have a Sig RX , has the factory installed SIG sight, little wider field of view than most. It also has raised (suppressor) sights that co-witness the red dot.

I do not carry it, at least not yet. I have the usual mid-60's eyesight and issues seeing a great sight picture as well. From my limited range time i have no doubt I could shoot,sight, and be more effective at anything over 20 foot.

My everyday carry is a 380, I have issues carrying nearly any weigh, and believe me, I've tried. With it, I'm competent to 25 feet, strong,weak and single hand. I also find within 10-15 feet I have pretty good point and shoot capabilities without even sighting.

With all that - I have no idea of the future of red dots for carry I just saw one - probably biased video of a much better shooter than I am that was prophesying the future (5 years or less) and predicated we would see more and more carrying and using them, civilian as well as M&P.

The factory installed and factory ready will undoubtedly help.

Sig , for instance has recently started shipping their compact size with their red dot, though the full size has been out as well.

Brian D. wrote:Do you use optics-sighted handguns, Allen ? If so, how much? Has one become your everyday carry? Back up traditional sights on it too? Just your personal current circumstances please, not references to experiences of others. What say you?

Ah, but I cannot properly frame my experience here, without referencing both others. I don't exist in a bubble!

In a couple of words?

Nope, not yet.

Long story?

I'd gone so long (c.2003) with a DOCTERsight mounted on the slide of my airsoft BB-IPSC gun - a hobby that I'd gotten out of by the end of 2004 - that I'd actually forgotten most of the troubles that I had with it, until I started trying others' setups in more recent years. This is where the consistency/learning-curve issue got to me as it did your friend, as I know I had it, once. But now when I try other's slide-mount micro-RDS equipped blasters during friendly range sessions or in classes, it's obvious to everyone that I'm searching for the dot because my presentation just isn't consistent enough. Had it, but no longer. Similarly, it's easy to see in my friends who are adapting to their new setups their progression, too. It's time-on-task that will solve this one.

My eyesight is failing. Especially transitioning between far and close, I'm starting to notice the strain, and the slide-mounted micro-RDS is something that I will have no choice on - and likely will have to switch to in the next 5 years or so. This is the main reason why I've been side-eying the stuff regarding technology, usability, and durability/reliability. For me, this isn't about whether if I have any personal experience with any of these products - but rather, that I get a better picture of the experiences of the collective. More power. Given the nature of communities such as M4C.net and P&S, that's advice that I view as being worth taking, for myself, to help with my future decisions. And it is precisely based on the experiences of those communities why I have not yet taken the leap with my own defensive handguns (or their training copies). I do not have the budget or the time to keep on top of the currently known issues (particularly in terms of the specific teething pains that some in "my" handgun community, the SA XD-series handguns, are experiencing). I will come in with my own money when the technical issues are (more) worked out.

With that all said, in a manner similar to a fellow member here on OFCC (someone whose eyesight is considerably worse than mine), I know that I will have actual distance-to-target limitations come in well before I reach my visual limit in terms of seeing the RDSs dot. This member eventually found his solution by using a laser, and as someone whose uncorrected vision is horrible, I can definitely "see" why he went that route - hence my commentary on lasers. I have a laser on my HD handgun. In-truth, I'd love to have one on my carry gun, too, but that's proven more difficult due to what is available for my handguns.

As for how the dot is illuminated, that's not limited to just the handgun application: that's with any electronic red-dot sight. At Apex Shooting and Tactics' last low-light handgun clinic, a fellow student had an ambient-only RMR which washed out in a manner that's very similar to what I have experienced with my Trijicon Reflex, mounted on a long-gun.