Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Are you conceding the economic shutdown point, then?

I appreciate the straw man of perfect world of perfect candidates, it's well built for the purpose of an easy score. Good Job. (Were you a journalist at any time, maybe a High School reporter? Your instructors are undoubtedly proud of your construction.)

I'm having it both ways by condemning McCain, Romney, Trump, Kasich, DeWhine, et al? How many RedTeam candidates have to stab you in the face before you recognize the trend?

Of course the "VOTE JOE!" group is there to let us know that our captors are also our saviors. Thank you for that. Enjoy your gaslighting.
Klingon00 wrote:Because, in order to challenge the status quo you have to provide solutions, not criticisms. You can criticize until you are blue in the face, but people will eventually tune you out if you have no viable alternative solution to offer.
My proposal is that you read the Declaration of Independence and The American Ideal of 1776.

My proposal is that we uphold the concepts that we profess with our keyboards, our faith in Natural Rights and People being free from government rule.

That ain't the status quo, is it? If all you believe in is the federal ballot box, (and can we be honest, there's a great deal of fraud and corruption that goes into that very special election), then how are you proposing a solution to the status quo? You're cheer-leading for 4 more years of the status quo.

If voting every 4 years is the limit to the courage of one's convictions, I suppose the lotion is very refreshing.

Trump himself is counting on the American Spirit to open schools and economies in Democrat led states, after he suggested and encouraged the shutdown. In a sense your "savior" just told you that he's powerless and puts HIS hope in the American Spirit to undo what he did and cannot undo.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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bignflnut wrote: My proposal is that you read the Declaration of Independence and The American Ideal of 1776.

My proposal is that we uphold the concepts that we profess with our keyboards, our faith in Natural Rights and People being free from government rule.

That ain't the status quo, is it? If all you believe in is the federal ballot box, (and can we be honest, there's a great deal of fraud and corruption that goes into that very special election), then how are you proposing a solution to the status quo? You're cheer-leading for 4 more years of the status quo.

If voting every 4 years is the limit to the courage of one's convictions, I suppose the lotion is very refreshing.
You're still beating around the bush. Reading founding documents and philosophy will be of little comfort should your fears come true and the next presidential term results in dismantling the constitution.

Theoretically speaking here, should you decide that spending time criticizing on this little corner of the internet is no longer a comfort to your loss of rights and you were to take action, you'll not get very far on action alone. Winning hearts and minds will get you farther but you'll not win that on criticism alone. At some point, people will want leadership. If not you, WHO? Criticizing is easy, leadership is not and you will be criticized. If you want to know what that will be like, Trump is example numero uno.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Image

Trump sells his own lotion, btw, so make the commitment and give the dude your voluntary capital along with your spirit.

Who's upholding the Constitution currently?
Do you not see what's going on?

I hear ya, people who are honest and give you some bitter medicine are to be criticized, but "leaders" who sing you a pretty song getchyer votes.

We can debate how to uphold the Constitution, there's any number of acts that can be taken, but we must first recognize that the status quo is destructive. Voting 4 moar years of this is not helpful.

If the only thing upholding the Constitution is the ballot box...do you not see the institutions of America harming "The People"?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by WhyNot »

...you decide that spending time criticizing on this little corner of the internet is no longer a comfort to your loss of rights and you were to take action, you'll not get very far on action alone. Winning hearts and minds will get you...



BEHOLD! ! Plan B ! !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2lTIh536jY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edit: It's been a long time since I had to invoke the TOS. Remember that links are supposed to have a brief summary so we know what we are clicking. Thanks--m380g
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by WhyNot »

I said that ^^ when Bush manufactured the HomeLand Security branch of government. Or bureaucracy thingie. I said, if Pres. Clinton did this, everyone would be hissing etc.

Creating more gov't should have been viewed as BAD, no matter who did it. Does it.

More debt placed upon the backs of the unborn two-three generations from now is, BAD. Ok you got me you're right, it's more like, 4-5 gens from now.


In the short time it took you to read this, the national debt went up approx. $18million. Happy.
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by Klingon00 »

bignflnut wrote:Who's upholding the Constitution currently?
Do you not see what's going on?
I believe I see what's going on and it isn't someone who advocates for a change in power outside of the ballot box. Voting is an integral part of our constitution I might remind you.
bignflnut wrote:I hear ya, people who are honest and give you some bitter medicine are to be criticized, but "leaders" who sing you a pretty song getchyer votes.
You think what I'm giving you is criticism? Can you imagine if you try to make good on your own personal declaration of independence and it gets filmed for everyone to see? You haven't begun to see the criticism from the left, much less the right here. I'm attempting to be gentle and perhaps it is you who don't care for my particular brand of bitter medicine?
bignflnut wrote:We can debate how to uphold the Constitution, there's any number of acts that can be taken, but we must first recognize that the status quo is destructive. Voting 4 moar years of this is not helpful.
Yes, please! Lets have that debate! I've been gently prodding you to do something constructive with your energy for a change. I'm challenging you to come up with solutions. How do YOU propose we uphold the constitution without destroying it in the process? Lets start talking about solutions.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Before we start, you initially pushed back on who shut down the government and since I refuted that argument, crickets. You've replied multiple times without taking issue. I, therefore, believe you've accepted my argument or have no discernible rebuttal to it.
Klingon00 wrote: Yes, please! Lets have that debate! I've been gently prodding you to do something constructive with your energy for a change. I'm challenging you to come up with solutions. How do YOU propose we uphold the constitution without destroying it in the process? Lets start talking about solutions.
Alright. Let's do it. Thank you for your patience and candor in getting me to this point of the conversation. Many lesser debate pugilists check out prior to this juncture. I commend you for sticking to it. Clips started in video links here, but I recommend people digest the full broadcasts.

One quick aside: What is the greatest threat to RKBA? (Warning, the topic of the answer is likely verboten in the TOS of this freedom loving forum) I wholeheartedly agree with the answer this arms dealer gives. Realizing that this is a spiritual battle that begins in the heart of every man is the first step, but I digress.

Assuming one can get to the place where they understand that the current institutional structures and "leadership" is hostile to the American philosophy, the question becomes "How do we secure a Free State? " The Constitutional answer in short is local militias.
Here's a great clip discussing the check and balance function between ballot events. (Clipped it here to cut to the chase. Even 2-5 minutes before this is a great start!)

Regarding today's Medical Martial Law, how should the militia function? Here's the paper he referenced.

Difficult, to be certain, reestablishing and reforming institutions of America.

Groups like VCDL have done well, organizing in the face of a clear and present danger. But they must realize that the legislative/executive/judicial tree in their State has produced rotten fruit for many years. Why continue to appeal to it with a ballot box?
As of July 1, cities, counties, and towns can strip you of your rights by passing gun control that forbids you from carrying in local government buildings, parks, recreation and community centers, and at permitted events and adjacent streets!

If we let localities do this, we will have a massive spiderweb of gun control across the Commonwealth. That spiderweb is exactly what the gun-grabbers want. It makes carrying a gun such a headache because you have to know the gun laws of over 193 localities instead of just knowing state law. And it reduces where you can carry. Gun-controllers want to keep expanding that prohibited location list until gun owners will just leave their guns at home out of pure frustration.

It has already happened in the cities of Alexandria and Richmond, emboldening other localities to do the same! The ONLY way to stop it from spreading to YOUR community is to contact your local government officials via email and, optionally, telephone (a link to the suggested email is below). You need to spread this message to everyone in Virginia that you know. That includes friends, family, neighbors, and everyone at your local gun stores, gun ranges, hunt club, civic group, church, etc.

We need an overwhelming response from gun owners, similar to what we saw last year with the Second Amendment Sanctuary movement!

The email calls for your local government to pass a model resolution that VCDL has tailored to each locality. The resolution creates a commitment by the local government to refuse to pass any gun control, even though a new law gives them the power to do so.

We cannot emphasize enough how important it is we get localities to pass the resolution. With any luck the vast majority of the state will not create any local gun-control, but only if you do your part. It doesn't matter if your locality is a strong Second Amendment Sanctuary, where it should be fairly easy to get the resolution passed, or if your locality is part of Russia for all practical purposes. We need to do this statewide. And don't let Alexandria or Richmond off the hook, either!
Therefore, some in Virginia are erecting/joining militias.

Of course this will be met with derision as tinfoil and such and so forth. It's not that bad, it can't happen here and all the things that have been said since Reagan.

I direct you to the Bundy Ranch v BLM (See that?) incident as recent historic proof of concept. I'll add that the "protesters" and statue puller-downers are the militia of the left, as Tucker Carlson has opined. They operate outside the law and are destructive in nature, whereas 2A and State Constitutions establish the legal authority of what I'm proposing.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Perhaps the depth of the rabbit hole has generated a great deal of silence.

I can imagine how easy it is to see me as some internet blowhard who has no genuine solutions. It's easy to call me out in that way, thinking that you're calling my bluff. But, there is a historic and legal basis for the proposed solution. Indeed, Covid has demonstrated to us just how not freely and not bravely we have conducted ourselves in the past, begging and pleading for the ability, nay the privilege, of keeping and bearing a concealed weapon.

Please fingerprint me, treating me as a criminal prior to booking, to ensure that I'm not a criminal, (because there' great faith placed in the almighty database), and please make me pay a fee so that I may have privilege to defend myself in certain places of public access.

Can you step into my mind for a moment, comprehending how free we SHOULD be, and how odious the patronizing platitudes of each election cycle become?

We've got our foundations all wrong, not being able to discuss the Spiritual side of our Rights, in the duty of upholding our Constitution, SECURING our freedom as a people.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by Klingon00 »

First I want to begin by apologizing for the lateness in my reply as I no longer have the free time nor as predictable a schedule as I once had years ago but I will attempt to continue this dialogue as time permits. I ask for your patience in this.
bignflnut wrote:Before we start, you initially pushed back on who shut down the government and since I refuted that argument, crickets. You've replied multiple times without taking issue. I, therefore, believe you've accepted my argument or have no discernible rebuttal to it.
Please know that I sometimes choose to ignore a red herring in order to avoid getting bogged down into the weeds of peripheral issues. I think that what we are narrowing in on at this point is a far more important issue, and I suspect you understand that too.
bignflnut wrote:Alright. Let's do it. Thank you for your patience and candor in getting me to this point of the conversation. Many lesser debate pugilists check out prior to this juncture. I commend you for sticking to it.


Cool, and again, lots of info to absorb that you've provided so it is also impacting my ability to respond in a timely manner. I believe I understand much of the basis you've laid down here and I do agree in principle that a Militia of the people does appear to be one of the founders ideas of a check to the government's power. However, in reality, and in action, there are some unanswered questions that leave me troubled.
bignflnut wrote:Assuming one can get to the place where they understand that the current institutional structures and "leadership" is hostile to the American philosophy, the question becomes "How do we secure a Free State? " The Constitutional answer in short is local militias.
*snip*
bignflnut wrote:Difficult, to be certain, reestablishing and reforming institutions of America.

Groups like VCDL have done well, organizing in the face of a clear and present danger. But they must realize that the legislative/executive/judicial tree in their State has produced rotten fruit for many yearsWhy continue to appeal to it with a ballot box?
I think these unanswered questions are at the heart of what I'm trying to ascertain and something that I hope, through debate, maybe we can learn.
bignflnut wrote:Of course this will be met with derision as tinfoil and such and so forth. It's not that bad, it can't happen here and all the things that have been said since Reagan.

I direct you to the Bundy Ranch v BLM (See that?) incident as recent historic proof of concept. I'll add that the "protesters" and statue puller-downers are the militia of the left, as Tucker Carlson has opined. They operate outside the law and are destructive in nature, whereas 2A and State Constitutions establish the legal authority of what I'm proposing.
I'm not sure what comfort that the 2A and state constitutions establishing a legal authority would have when DA's and complicit judges are disarming law abiding Americans for daring to defend their lives and property. Elections have consequences and the consequence of losing too many elections to those who prefer lawlessness is a loss of rights. We can shout about natural rights but that apparently doesn't bring the NRA or any significant militia support to help defend the defenseless. Natural rights are only as good as the people who are willing to stand up for them.

I hope that Virginia can one day restore their gun rights. I'm afraid right now its mostly an attempt at holding the lines and reduce the speed of loss.

One of the beautiful things about our republic is that our constitution provides a bloodless method by which we can have a revolution of sorts, a transfer of power without needless death. This was mostly unheard of in the world at the time of its founding. While I feel it may be important to make sure that militias are healthy and supporting the constitution, it's also important to remember that the ballot box is in itself a direct representation of the will of the American people, at least until such a time when the American people loose faith in its authenticity (we may be approaching that point). Remember too that those who believe in dismantling the 2A and most of the founding principles are near equal in numbers to those who don't.

In this climate, a militia standing up for rights is just as likely to face other citizens as they are the federal and state governments. In many jurisdictions a pro 2A militia will likely face both. Outnumbered, out-messaged, and out-maneuvered as sources of income become choked off. You think the de-platforming online is a problem? Just wait until it can all be justified as the mandated will of the people because those who believe in RKBA didn't show up to participate in the ballot box.

I get that you don't like Trump, but until all peaceful, legal/constitutional avenues are completely exhausted, you will face an uphill battle. You aren't exactly as alone as you think, and perhaps one day people will say you're ahead of your time. Perhaps we are beyond the point of repair and that this entire experiment of liberty is a failure. If that's the case, you will also face a very large uphill battle attempting to rebuild after hastening its demise in its current form. History books are full of examples of tyranny, and extremely slim on examples where liberty has overcome that temptation. What's to prevent this cycle of failure from occurring again? The best laid plans of mice and men...

Ultimately I ask, if we can't even win at the ballot box, what hope do we have to win anywhere else?

You may be criticizing Trump today, maybe tomorrow you're criticizing the warlord of the local fiefdom you happen to live in? What difference, at this point, does it make?
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Just have a quick moment to drop this here, I'll respond more fully later today or tonight.
Hundreds of anti-mask protesters protected by armed militia and bikers gather at the Ohio statehouse saying face coverings are 'propaganda' and holding 'I will not wear someone else's fear' signs

A large anti-mask protest clashed with a Black Lives Matter counter-protest outside the Ohio statehouse on Saturday
Hundreds of armed protesters gathered in Columbus to stand against mask mandates in several counties in the state
Militia provided 'security' for the open carry and maskless event
Black Lives Matter protesters later formed their own demonstration
Heated exchanges erupted between the two groups and police were forced to keep them apart
One person was detained after a physical altercation between two members of different far-right groups
Ohio has no statewide mandate on wearing masks
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

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Klingon00 wrote:I'm not sure what comfort that the 2A and state constitutions establishing a legal authority would have when DA's and complicit judges are disarming law abiding Americans for daring to defend their lives and property. Elections have consequences and the consequence of losing too many elections to those who prefer lawlessness is a loss of rights. We can shout about natural rights but that apparently doesn't bring the NRA or any significant militia support to help defend the defenseless.
(*sigh*) You missed it.
With the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate, elected officials acting in a way that does not uphold natural rights are ripe for being charged as criminals, removed from office, and suffering legal consequences.
Klingon00 wrote:Natural rights are only as good as the people who are willing to stand up for them.
Amen! (Insert, HRC what difference does an election make? meme)
Klingon00 wrote:One of the beautiful things about our republic is that our constitution provides a bloodless method by which we can have a revolution of sorts, a transfer of power without needless death.
That's certainly ideal, but have you seen the militia of the left? Have you seen the chaos and lawlessness that's killing young people and babies in our nation? The blood libel being blamed on America and it's light skinned patriarchy? We can't say what a male or a female is, what bathroom they should use, what is proper behavior. We're a fair distance from ideal, are we not? Do you not think that a bloodless revolution has occurred? Is this way of life your preference?
Klingon00 wrote:Remember too that those who believe in dismantling the 2A and most of the founding principles are near equal in numbers to those who don't.
They may outnumber us, but we carry the equalizers, don't we? You know what they have that we lack? Desire. Conviction. Courage.

They push us around like a schoolyard bully because we want to cry to the ballot box and SCOTUS. Then they slap us around again at the next recess. We're as timid as Wayne Brady, but that can change.
Klingon00 wrote:In this climate, a militia standing up for rights is just as likely to face other citizens as they are the federal and state governments. In many jurisdictions a pro 2A militia will likely face both. Outnumbered, out-messaged, and out-maneuvered as sources of income become choked off. You think the de-platforming online is a problem? Just wait until it can all be justified as the mandated will of the people because those who believe in RKBA didn't show up to participate in the ballot box.
That's a very swift hoisting of the white flag for someone advocating the status quo. Can you make the case that 4 more years is going to be better for us than my proposal?
Klingon00 wrote:I get that you don't like Trump...
Who likes being lied to constantly by a false savior? Can anyone explain why I SHOULD like him? How are we better off than we were in 2016? Our economy is in shambles, unemployment runs wild, schools are indoctrination centers, our currency is increasingly worthless, our RKBA is under attack, etc. Where's the Liberty? What dragons has our "Champion" slain? Where's the "home of the brave" or the "land of the free"? We're a nation of Karens and cowards. This "man" can't even keep a wife. He's an amazing BS artist and he shines the outside of the cup better than most, to be sure.
Klingon00 wrote:..., but until all peaceful, legal/constitutional avenues are completely exhausted, you will face an uphill battle. You aren't exactly as alone as you think, and perhaps one day people will say you're ahead of your time. Perhaps we are beyond the point of repair and that this entire experiment of liberty is a failure. If that's the case, you will also face a very large uphill battle attempting to rebuild after hastening its demise in its current form. History books are full of examples of tyranny, and extremely slim on examples where liberty has overcome that temptation. What's to prevent this cycle of failure from occurring again? The best laid plans of mice and men...
Uphill to be sure, we've lost much over the generations and this won't be undone overnight, but should we wait 4 more years? Is that the plan, completely exhausted? This is a CONSTITUTIONAL AVENUE and you won't even get behind the idea!
Klingon00 wrote:Ultimately I ask, if we can't even win at the ballot box, what hope do we have to win anywhere else?

How large is that white flag you're waiving and who are you surrendering to? What hope is there in the ballot box? (Have you not seen the fraud and the demographics? They're going to take TEXAS if they haven't already.) What hope is there in SCOTUS? What hope is there in Congress? What hope is there but an emphatic return to local government supremacy?
Klingon00 wrote:You may be criticizing Trump today, maybe tomorrow you're criticizing the warlord of the local fiefdom you happen to live in? What difference, at this point, does it make?
That is a legitimate risk. We must be vigilant, right? Or hey, let's just vote for someone who won't give us the time of day until it's time for election, provided he's a thousand miles away, at least he's not in OUR back yard.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by Klingon00 »

bignflnut wrote: With the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate, elected officials acting in a way that does not uphold natural rights are ripe for being charged as criminals, removed from office, and suffering legal consequences.
I'm not holding my breath. That district very much approves of the DA's actions. I don't expect there to be a popular uprising to hold her accountable. Maybe, just maybe elected officials like the Attorney General might do something... which is why elections matter if rule of law is to matter. Again, rights are only as good as those willing to fight for them... or vote for that matter.
bignflnut wrote: That's certainly ideal, but have you seen the militia of the left? Have you seen the chaos and lawlessness that's killing young people and babies in our nation? The blood libel being blamed on America and it's light skinned patriarchy? We can't say what a male or a female is, what bathroom they should use, what is proper behavior. We're a fair distance from ideal, are we not? Do you not think that a bloodless revolution has occurred? Is this way of life your preference?
Absolutely not. The newspeak, pogroms and purity shibboleths are clearly killing our republic. We still have a chance to do something while we still have the right to vote. Perhaps that day is coming to an end soon, but we will certainly loose the republic sooner than later if we simply refuse to show up at the ballot box now.
bignflnut wrote:They may outnumber us, but we carry the equalizers, don't we? You know what they have that we lack? Desire. Conviction. Courage.

They push us around like a schoolyard bully because we want to cry to the ballot box and SCOTUS. Then they slap us around again at the next recess. We're as timid as Wayne Brady, but that can change.
Again, elections have consequences. Not showing up means we lose by default. I've seen no evidence that they aren't just as convicted, not as fulfilled with desire, or courage as any of us. As individuals, anyone can appear weak, but numbers, and funding are the real issue at the end of the day, and it has very real effects either at the ballot box or in the street. Losing the reigns of power makes any future action by citizens that much more difficult. Look to places like North Korea, China, Cuba and Venezuela if you want a taste of what that is like and what any freedom loving person would have to contend with at that stage.
bignflnut wrote:That's a very swift hoisting of the white flag for someone advocating the status quo. Can you make the case that 4 more years is going to be better for us than my proposal?
Cool your jets, nobody is surrendering, we are discussing ideas in an open forum. As I said above, not showing up surrenders any say in how this country is run. Biden has already made it clear that he intends to corrupt the voting process, eliminate gun rights, and stuff the Supreme Court so full of judges, he might as well stick the constitution into a shredder while he's at it. The Democrats feel they made a mistake the last time they held complete rains of power under Obama, I don't believe they will let that opportunity slip again.

This is what's at stake here. I do not see an equivalency to Trump here at all but I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong. It is always a risk when it comes to power and its corrupting temptations. Especially now that the institutions designed to check and balance are showing their thumbs on the left side of the scale. The cards stacked against Trump means he will probably continue to struggle against the "resistance" which isn't always a bad thing. Resistance means inability to pass new laws and new violations of rights by the government.
bignflnut wrote:Who likes being lied to constantly by a false savior? Can anyone explain why I SHOULD like him? How are we better off than we were in 2016? Our economy is in shambles, unemployment runs wild, schools are indoctrination centers, our currency is increasingly worthless, our RKBA is under attack, etc. Where's the Liberty? What dragons has our "Champion" slain? Where's the "home of the brave" or the "land of the free"? We're a nation of Karens and cowards. This "man" can't even keep a wife. He's an amazing BS artist and he shines the outside of the cup better than most, to be sure.
History shows there's little guarantee that any of those things would come naturally by surrendering the ballot box and tearing the country down in a blaze of glory. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions. So the world isn't perfect? Throwing the baby out with the bath water doesn't fix the baby. The people doing these things won't exactly go away entirely and trying to eliminate them will only be used to tear the whole thing down in future generations and we'd be right back where we are right now.

If the republic isn't worth saving, what argument do you have for what we should replace it with so it doesn't happen again? Keep in mind, there are international forces that may also wish to have their say for future ex-america. You won't be the only voice who will try to have their say. Chances are you won't be the most funded or most loudly heard.
bignflnut wrote:Uphill to be sure, we've lost much over the generations and this won't be undone overnight, but should we wait 4 more years? Is that the plan, completely exhausted? This is a CONSTITUTIONAL AVENUE and you won't even get behind the idea!
The CONSTITUTIONAL AVENUE is to vote, at the ballot box. The country had a civil war about this already and the results weren't pretty. Yes, should tyranny come knocking we should be ready to defend ourselves. Are we at the stage of tyranny? Many would argue not yet... but that clock keeps ticking nearer to midnight every minute for many of us... let's not hasten it.
bignflnut wrote: What hope is there in the ballot box? (Have you not seen the fraud and the demographics? They're going to take TEXAS if they haven't already.) What hope is there in SCOTUS? What hope is there in Congress?
The ballot box is the bloodless and more civilized form of revolution. If you decide to have a different form of revolution, it won't change the realities of demographics or what side people will choose to be on. You still need to win hearts and minds, one way or another or you will be facing the same uphill battle.

Trump has put two pro 2A judges on the supreme court and chances are high he may get at least a third, maybe more if he gets another 4 years. THAT is the hope. That single change in vote would seem to be the tie breaker to end the current status quo of the court ignoring the 2A.
bignflnut wrote:What hope is there but an emphatic return to local government supremacy?
Keep in mind that ORC 9.68 could end up being used as a double edged sword for those plans... for better or worse. Elections have consequences.
bignflnut wrote:That is a legitimate risk. We must be vigilant, right? Or hey, let's just vote for someone who won't give us the time of day until it's time for election, provided he's a thousand miles away, at least he's not in OUR back yard.
Do YOU know somebody better? I'm willing to listen.
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

Klingon00 wrote: Maybe, just maybe elected officials like the Attorney General might do something... which is why elections matter if rule of law is to matter. Again, rights are only as good as those willing to fight for them... or vote for that matter.


Show me that candidate and I vow to grant them my vote. Have I not said this repeatedly? This is not the candidate you profess to vote for. You're lying to yourself, you've got a politicalStockholm Syndrome and attempt to infect others with it.
Klingon00 wrote:The newspeak, pogroms and purity shibboleths are clearly killing our republic. We still have a chance to do something while we still have the right to vote.
You have no candidates on the national level with the courage to carry forward a positive agenda (See 2020 America: Where Tucker says that our 2A has never been under greater attack) . The GOP is not the party of principle. The Dems have principles, at least, and push their agenda with some level of honesty (advocating citizen disarmament, MMT and abortion openly). Here's a report on the GOP and the advisors in these candidates ears.
Klingon00 wrote:Again, elections have consequences. Not showing up means we lose by default.
Disagree. Voting for squishes like Kasich, DeWhine, Romney, McCain, Trump, Bush, etc, means we lose by default. Even if "our team" wins in November, they don't govern to our satisfaction -- they keep us on a mental type of life support, where our Natural Right muscles are atrophied and we rely on them for water via a feeding tube.
Klingon00 wrote:I've seen no evidence that they aren't just as convicted, not as fulfilled with desire, or courage as any of us.
Did you see the McCloskeys? That mob is reported to be 300 and this barefooted couple had 40 rounds to spend. There's no scenario, baring the supernatural or some other intervention, where that mob loses. I challenge the conviction, desire, courage, tactical math of that mob. They didn't want the OPTICS of victory in that scenario (as it would galvanize the nation against them, even now the mob is attempting to play the victim). They want us to load ourselves onto the train cars, show up to take the needle voluntarily, cry out for MMT when they shutdown the economy, etc. The want us to cave/squish, based on peer pressure and being called "a racist whatever-a-phobe". And our "elected leaders" are all to happy while they do.
Klingon00 wrote:As individuals, anyone can appear weak, but numbers, and funding are the real issue at the end of the day, and it has very real effects either at the ballot box or in the street. Losing the reigns of power makes any future action by citizens that much more difficult. Look to places like North Korea, China, Cuba and Venezuela if you want a taste of what that is like and what any freedom loving person would have to contend with at that stage.
Sometimes you paint a dire picture like this, without showing how unprincipled candidates prevent that scenario, and other times, you suggest hope in a nonviolent path towards reform without showing how unprincipled candidates get us there.

Stop deflecting and show us how an unprincipled rally leader like Trump moves our agenda forward.
bignflnut wrote:That's a very swift hoisting of the white flag for someone advocating the status quo. Can you make the case that 4 more years is going to be better for us than my proposal?
Klingon00 wrote:Cool your jets, nobody is surrendering, we are discussing ideas in an open forum. As I said above, not showing up surrenders any say in how this country is run. Biden has already made it clear that he intends to corrupt the voting process, eliminate gun rights, and stuff the Supreme Court so full of judges, he might as well stick the constitution into a shredder while he's at it.The Democrats feel they made a mistake the last time they held complete rains of power under Obama, I don't believe they will let that opportunity slip again.
We agree: Dems/Biden is not the candidate that will uphold the ideals and principles of America. Thanks for bringing that up so that we could clarify. Nobody should vote for Democrats. Democrats bad. Got that out of our systems? Moving on...repeated because it was not addressed: Can you make the case that 4 more years is going to be better for us than my proposal?

Klingon00 wrote:History shows there's little guarantee that any of those things would come naturally by surrendering the ballot box and tearing the country down in a blaze of glory.


I'm asserting that you've already surrendered the ballot box by nominating/supporting/voting for/ endorsing/ campaigning for/ speaking positively of people who will not enact, and are sometimes in fact hostile to, your agenda once elected.

Klingon00 wrote:If the republic isn't worth saving,...
I didn't say that. I'm asserting that the path to saving the republic is not to continue electing feckless reality star idiots, but men of sturdy principles who comprehend what's at stake and how to win our Liberty. I encourage you to either agree with me on that point and show me who you plan to vote for, or publicly recognize that we don't have that option in either the GOP or the Democrat party nominee for POTUS 2020.
Klingon00 wrote:...what argument do you have for what we should replace it with so it doesn't happen again? Keep in mind, there are international forces that may also wish to have their say for future ex-america. You won't be the only voice who will try to have their say. Chances are you won't be the most funded or most loudly heard.
I agree, a house divided will fall to insiders (who are really outsiders, let's be honest) and genuine outsiders. We must reassert the principles and ideals of America, if it is to survive.
Klingon00 wrote:The CONSTITUTIONAL AVENUE is to vote, at the ballot box. The country had a civil war about this already and the results weren't pretty. Yes, should tyranny come knocking we should be ready to defend ourselves. Are we at the stage of tyranny?


Ask a barber. Ask a restaurant owner who is so loaded with red tape that their entire day and much of the week is spent researching the red tape being loaded upon him. Ask the pastors who can't open their churches. Ask the gym owners who must defy the State to make a living. Ask the people of Michigan, Illinois, California...
Klingon00 wrote:Many would argue not yet... but that clock keeps ticking nearer to midnight every minute for many of us... let's not hasten it.
Agree. Let's reestablish institutions that keep our States free. Let's end this destructive downward spiral of voting in and encouraging empty suits (at best) or traitors and listening to what they have to say when they aren't going to enforce any of it.
Klingon00 wrote:The ballot box is the bloodless and more civilized form of revolution. If you decide to have a different form of revolution, it won't change the realities of demographics or what side people will choose to be on. You still need to win hearts and minds, one way or another or you will be facing the same uphill battle.


Sturdy principle is the only way forward. Our candidates refuse to act upon that. Time is short.
Sturdy principle and follow through will inspire many and win the hearts and minds you seek. Squishing like Kasich, Dewine, Taft, Householder, Trump, McCain, Romney, Bush, Flake, Graham, Roberts, etc ain't getting you there.
Klingon00 wrote:Trump has put two pro 2A judges on the supreme court and chances are high he may get at least a third, maybe more if he gets another 4 years. THAT is the hope. That single change in vote would seem to be the tie breaker to end the current status quo of the court ignoring the 2A.


Unelected lifetime appointed judges? Haven't I heard this for the last 30-40 years? Where has it gotten us? 21 of the 28 previous SCOTUS justices have been appointed by dudes carrying the R behind their names. Why will the next 30-40 years be different?

We've got 4 to take up 2A cases on SCOTUS now and they won't do it...they're not upholding the Constitution...because we're not upholding the Constitution, which brings me back to my solution...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump, Gun Free Zones and Day One

Post by bignflnut »

For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear...
Here's what people need to understand...

Sometimes giving an enemy a false sense of security by allowing them a minor victory is the best strategy. The globalists strategize for the long term; not just for the next 4 years, but for the next 40 years. As Richard N. Gardner, former deputy assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations under Kennedy and Johnson, and a member of the Trilateral Commission, wrote in the April, 1974 issue of the Council on Foreign Relation’s (CFR) journal Foreign Affairs (pg. 558) in an article titled 'The Hard Road To World Order':

“In short, the ‘house of world order’ will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down. It will look like a great ‘booming, buzzing confusion,’ to use William James’ famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault.”

My prediction on Trump becoming president was not only based on Clinton's inadequacy as a candidate, but also on Trump's usefulness as a scapegoat for collapse. Keep in mind that the US economy had been struggling to maintain support since the crash of 2008. With all major fundamentals either stagnant or in decline, and with corporate debt, consumer debt and national debt skyrocketing, an enormous bubble was being created in the US economy. This bubble was being inflated by the Federal Reserve through endless stimulus policies to the point that the economy had become addicted to easy money. The system was dependent on it.

Eventually, this bubble was going to pop regardless of how much money was printed by the Fed. The banking elites needed a cover event and a scapegoat for the inevitable collapse they had engineered. With Clinton in office, the globalists would get the blame for the crash. With Trump in office, conservatives and all of our ideals and principles get the blame for the crash.

Trump's entry into the White House brought hope for many conservatives, but I never put much faith in the eventual outcome once I realized the same elites that had infested previous administrations were now packed into Trump's cabinet. The fact of the matter is, Trump is surrounded by them.

SNIP

These factors and more lead me to predict that Election 2020 will be a contested election which ends with Trump staying in office but accused of usurping the democratic process. This outcome is the worst possible outcome and also the most advantageous for the globalist establishment.

SNIP

I continue to predict that the plan is to destroy the US as we know it and blame conservatives in the process. With so many elites inhabiting Trump's cabinet, this outcome would be easy for them to engineer. That said, the end game is not in the hands of the elites. It's in the hands of conservatives.

The temptation for conservatives will be to fully embrace government power in order to stop the leftists, but if we refuse to support martial law measures, if we demand or assert alternative solutions (such as community based security), if we stand by our principles of limited government and if we fight back against the globalists specifically instead of only focusing on the political left, then there is a chance we can stop them from taking control. That said, if we bow to government power and hand over our freedom just to defeat the leftists, then we will lose the greater battle against globalism in the long run.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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