Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

I'm sure the question's been asked before (maybe even by me? )...
...but the grandson's getting an M&P15 VTAC II later today. Of course, it comes sans sights. This will be mostly a range toy, but obviously for what he's spending on it he doesn't want to top it off with a $40 Tasco from W-M. So, two-part question:
1. What's a decent set of irons to put on it without breaking the bank? Pretty much his entire tax refund is being sunk into the rifle right now, but Grandpa might be able to help out with something until he can save up enough of his lunch money to get an optic.
2. He did quite well with the Aimpoint PRO on my M&P15 Sport, so we know that's a viable option. What might be some others to look at in that general price range?

I'm still relatively new to the AR world mineownself, so any help is appreciated.

I have the Magpul BUIS set on my carbine. They seem to work well and didn't break the bank when I bought them. Just under $100 for the set.

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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Y6 ... K842WEKRJY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I assume if he liked the PRO, you are really looking for backup iron sights? If so, I also like the Magpul ones and use them on several of my AR's. I also like the Troy folding dioptic sights.

FormerNavy wrote:I assume if he liked the PRO, you are really looking for backup iron sights?

Well, yeah, sort of... They'll be the main sights for a while until he can save up some more money.

I would go with the Magpul buis.. They have the composite sights a little cheaper than the steel sights.

For folding, those polymer Magpuls are an excellent choice at a very great price point. The Diamondhead polymers are another possibility for around that price-range, if you guys prefer that type of sight-picture.

If you feel like you must have metal, their the Magpul "PRO" set is every small, very light, and very, very low-profile, and is now also time-proven...but it's gonna cost you nearly twice your budget.

Fixed (and metal), the Daniel Defense set is excellent, and should be doable for around $125, shipped.....

As for tough, durable, and proven RDSs, there's really nothing that's in the PRO's price-range that meets all three of those qualities.

Magpul polymer BUIS here and I like them.

I also run the Aimpoint PRO 2MOA and very much like it. Other stuff similar to that but cheaper may be a Vortex optic. Avoid EOTech until that whole ordeal is sorted, if ever.

Skip polymer Magpul sights. They're fine for backup within 50 yardsish, but absolutely worthless if you're wanting accuracy or will use them for primary sights. I found this out first hand after shooting a decent group at appleseed, and the next round of fire I had nothing on target. Folded the sights, let them pop back up, and I was sort of on paper again, although my zero had shifted. Worthless in my opinion, unless it's going to be a optic platform and you want some sort of sights on there for the sake of having them. I've no reference for their newer metal system, but if there's no mechanical lock to keep it in the up position, pass on any sight regardless the brand.

Get a set of fixed iron sights, or if you insist on folding Troy makes a good set (and I don't like the company, but the sights are supurb). I prefer the Daniel defense sights, they're more expensive, but are high quality, light, and fixed. This means there's no possibility of loosing zero on them and they will do the job of primary aiming system if you want to delay the use of an optic and learn the platform better. I run the fixed A1.5 rear sight with my standard front sight base and have zero issues with my Aimpoint micro. I use a lower 1/3 co-witness. Ironically I'm planning on pulling the aimpoint from my AR and moving it to my AK, and running a low magnification front focal plane optic on the AR in a year or two, and iron sights only in the mean time.

Primary Arms and Vortex makes decent entry level glass, and some really amazing high level stuff too. I'd strongly reccomend investing the $130ish into DD's fixed sights as they will likely live on the rifle throughout ownership.

jeep45238 wrote:Skip polymer Magpul sights. They're fine for backup within 50 yardsish, but absolutely worthless if you're wanting accuracy or will use them for primary sights. I found this out first hand after shooting a decent group at appleseed, and the next round of fire I had nothing on target. Folded the sights, let them pop back up, and I was sort of on paper again, although my zero had shifted. Worthless in my opinion, unless it's going to be a optic platform and you want some sort of sights on there for the sake of having them.

That's the first I've heard/read of this issue...admittedly, I'm not that well-versed with the AR platform, but is this something that's commonly seen with the polymer Magpuls? <--- This is an honest question.

I don't recall any of my classmates using the Magpul polymers at my first AR class having any problems with the sights retaining zero even after folding/unfolding, but again, this would be a limited sampling. While we did not pursue accuracy at-range with anything more than 12+ inch steel plates, the instructor was very critical of accuracy between the 25 and 50, and I would imagine that a shot that was only, as you'd cited, "sort of on paper" at the 100 would still be enough off on a closer template that the instructional cadre would have commented on it, at the very least..... The chief instructor for this school is very adamant about students being able to work their irons effectively, and we literally spent all but the very last exercise of the day using only our iron-sights.

My personal experience with the metal "Pro" models is that they retain zero after folding/unfolding, but I have not done any precision work at the 100+ to verify.

I've no reference for their newer metal system, but if there's no mechanical lock to keep it in the up position, pass on any sight regardless the brand.

There is no mechanical lock to keep the "Pro" model in the upright position, it's simply a forced detent in both the up and the down positions.

From what I understand, this is a personal-preference issue, with some preferring that the sights fold away when hard-knocked - and is similar to personal preferences of metal versus polymer, given the typical damage/failure of both under specific instances.

Nevertheless, this also brings up a good point, though, in that if the polymer Magpul's spring is borked, that will render the sight floppy and unusable.

I still like to look and handle not just guns but also the accessories in person. Last time I bought and gadgetized an AR, took a road trip to Bud's in Lexington Kentucky. Got lucky in that they weren't busy and their most AR-savvy employee/addict walked me through several items.

It didn't hurt that the Magpul steel sights were on sale for $10 more than the polymer version, but probably would have chosen the former anyway, given the clerk's side by side comparison and explanation. He owns both but for reasons mentioned above, usually buys the Pro model.

They've so far kept their zero for me.

I guess most of us have a store well stocked with AR stuff not too far away. At least go there to eyeball the gear for yourself, the knowledge of the store employees is another matter..

I had for gotten about the Vortex red dots... I have seen the Sparc II on Amazon and Ebay for between $160-$180.. They have a lifetime warranty and if I remember correctly they are made in the U.S... I have checked them out, they look pretty durable and I have mainly seen good reviews about them.

That Vortex model is what I went with on the aforementioned AR. So far so good.

jeep45238 wrote:Skip polymer Magpul sights. They're fine for backup within 50 yardsish, but absolutely worthless if you're wanting accuracy or will use them for primary sights. I found this out first hand after shooting a decent group at appleseed, and the next round of fire I had nothing on target. Folded the sights, let them pop back up, and I was sort of on paper again, although my zero had shifted. Worthless in my opinion, unless it's going to be a optic platform and you want some sort of sights on there for the sake of having them.

this is honestly the 1rst time i've ever heard anyone have a bad experience with MBUS flip ups, i've personally had & use AR's with MBUS flip ups & from many i've talked with have said there the best sites for 100yds out of the box & i can agree.
after putting the site down then flipping it back up & having issues, did you check to make sure it was still set tight on the rail, maybe finger touched LT-RT adjustment on rear site when flipping down just throwing out possibilities.

Brian D. wrote:That Vortex model is what I went with on the aforementioned AR. So far so good.

also have a AR with Vortex Strikefire II & it also is a fantastic site, a hands down fabulous warranty no questions asked.

They won't do 4moa or better in my experience. It's entirely possible that some dirt got wedged where the pop up portion interfaces with the bottom in the up position which changed my zero big time. Folding then popping them back up may have let the grit come out and go back to almost zero.

My point is that for the money there's better options as a main sighting system. I have a good feeling that many folks wanting to use them are typically using optics and only use the buis occasionally. And I'm also willing to bet a pancake that they're content with grouping 7 inches at 100 yards.

jeep45238 wrote:They won't do 4moa or better in my experience. It's entirely possible that some dirt got wedged where the pop up portion interfaces with the bottom in the up position which changed my zero big time. Folding then popping them back up may have let the grit come out and go back to almost zero.

My point is that for the money there's better options as a main sighting system. I have a good feeling that many folks wanting to use them are typically using optics and only use the buis occasionally. And I'm also willing to bet a pancake that they're content with grouping 7 inches at 100 yards.

What size pancake? The thing with folding sights not locking in is not exclusive to AR's. A real HK-91 battle rifle? Rear sight stays put. Most copies of that gun? No, not so much, a lack of attention to a subtle detail. Same can be said of the rear sight of the FAL: Genuine original FN? No problem. The clones? it varies.

Giving these kind of sights a bit of tightening tweak would be simple enough for a good gunsmith, and even most halfway serious shooters/tinkerers could fix it okay, assuming they figure out that's what messing up their groups. My only foray into the M1A family was with a Norinco/Polytech copy. It shot fine except for, sure enough, the rear sight having a tendency to wiggle around. I took it apart and installed a thin shim (ground down washer as I recall) which tightened it up like good match sights.

Getting back to AR's, I learned more about gadgets in a few hours at Bud's than whatever I'd picked up on my own over say five years. They had some very inexpensive back up sights but as the clerk/AR junkie showed me, they weren't going to hold still under recoil, forget about how much unintentional duress they might take before breaking in some fashion.