Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Building off the other thread about modern bullets/propellants helping smaller cartridges more...

The wiki entry on .32ACP is quite interesting. I didn't realize it was so popular in European law enforcement back in the day (where it was known as the 7.65mm Browning).

Of course, the idea of adding some zing to .32 Caliber slugs isn't new. The .32NAA was such an attempt whereby a .380ACP casing was necked down to accept a .32 slug much like the .357SIG is a .40 casing necked down to take a 9mm slug. Of course, the decreasing interest in .357SIG (and .400 Corbon which never caught on) shows that bottlenecked semi-auto rounds aren't catching on.

So...how does one go about getting a straight/tapered .32 Caliber semi-auto cartridge to have performance comparable to .327 Fed Mag and gain market acceptance? Let's address technical requirements separately from market factors.

Technical:
Max overall length 1.169" (same as 9x19mm but longer than the 0.984" of .32ACP so it won't get dropped into old .32ACP guns)
Desired existing bullet 115-gr Speer GDHP (10% gel data from .27 Fed Mag here) yielding 12-18" penetration and 0.50" expanded diameter
Target velocity 1300fps from compact barrels of 3-4" length
Maybe require magnum primers to help get the performance?
Able to fit, both dimensionally and pressure-wise, on a platform made for 9x19mm with just a barrel or barrel/slide swapout

Market:
Frankly, Glock needs to make a gun for this or it will fail. Springfield Armory (Croatia) would also be good. Domestic makers I am less concerned about, if they see their Euro conterparts making fat stacks with it they'll follow suit.
A really catchy name
A big marketing budget that includes LEO discounts and gun rag advertising

Thoughts?

Might increase magazine capacity vs. same size semiautomatic in 9mm. And if an N frame revolver in .38/.357 holds 8 rounds, your concept could be a nine shooter, maybe, with cutesy looking moon clips. (If this new entry isn't rimless, good luck working out feeding properly in auto loaders. It can and has been done, but never without headaches and teeth gnashing, at least with double stack magazines.)

Other than that I see this as an answer in search of a question. I'd rather see a hard push made to get the 9x23 Winchester brought back from Perdition.

Rimless of course!

You're right, it would hold more shots. That'd be fun watching the 9mm fanboys justify their century old obsession. Right now they wave off .22WMR with vague, "Rimefire, blah, blah, blah...not a service cartridge, blah, blah, blah," despite the ballistics gel results being VERY IMPRESSIVE even from short barrels. The Kel-Tec PMR-30 calls to me repeatedly, one of these days I'll succumb.

Didn't the 9mm Luger start out as the .30 Luger? Not too much actual caliber size difference from a 32 ACP (which isn't an actual .320) but blown out for better effectiveness later.

Speaking off, your round was invented twice 7.62 Mauser and 7.62x25 Tok. Bottleneck and all, both are beauties.

Those are bottlenecked with slugs sized .309/.310. I'm talking straight or tapered and .312/.3125.

Besides which, those are both longer than 9x19mm. That's a deal breaker.

Europeans are fascinated by 32 autos because the Euro police at the time carried weapons mostly for a symbol of authority. The 32 Auto has pretty terrible ballistics when you get right down to it. Out of a service-length barrel you are lucky to crack 150 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The 9mm Makarov makes 200 ft-lbs of ME. By way of comparison the 38 Special positively blows it away at double the ME- pushing 300 ft-lbs ME- in similar barrel lengths.

It would require a stronger gun than anything in the 32 Auto class currently existing. Even the Beretta Tomcats had frame cracking problems with the 'wimpy' 32 auto.

At that point, since the gun needs to be stronger, why limit yourself to the .312 bore? The 380 Auto is another classic like 32 auto...and it doesn't shine any better than the 32 Auto. Maybe a 10% increase in ME?

The 327 Federal was intended to be a "357 magnum in 32 size". Ever shot a small 327? When Taurus gets around to sending me the replacement parts for my Taurus 327 Snubbie, I'll let you pop off some American Eagle 100-gr sometime. It's the one gun I own that people tend to fire off the cylinder full and then put it down and not want to shoot it anymore.

Contain that energy in something the size of a Keltec PF9....for more than a couple shots!

Why would you want one? Pushing 115 grains beyond 1300 fps in a 32 cal frame is going to be uncomfortable. When I've tried it in a short barrel accuracy was unacceptable. With the current crop of pocket 9's being the size of a thirty two from decades past what is your gain?

calvin56 wrote:Why would you want one? Pushing 115 grains beyond 1300 fps in a 32 cal frame is going to be uncomfortable. When I've tried it in a short barrel accuracy was unacceptable. With the current crop of pocket 9's being the size of a thirty two from decades past what is your gain?

Morne is a little like Michael Keaton's character in the movie 'Night Shift', he's an ideas man. "Feed mayonnaise to tuna fish" etc. We humor Morne because he does some good work with state-level politicians.

The more I think about this one, the less I like the 32 ACP. Semi-rimmed and varying bullet diameters worldwide (some are closer to .308 and some closer to .312).... It's sort of like comparing the 30-30 and the 32 Win Special...just no real difference due to bullet diameter.

Of course, the 327 Fed Mag is not ripping up the sales charts, so making a semi-auto pistol version is a non-starter anyway. But, if it was, I still think the 7.62 Tok is the way to go (bottleneck and all, since having a bottleneck is not a hurdle in the marketplace- it's more about support by major manufacturers and ad dollars. The 357 Sig could have been just as successful as the 40 (and the 40 much less so), had the timing and FBI demands been different in the early 1990s).

Well, if your are avoiding necked down cases you could start with the 32 French Long MAS casing. Personally I would rather see a light carbine in 7.62x25.

walnut red wrote:Well, if your are avoiding necked down cases you could start with the 32 French Long MAS casing. Personally I would rather see a light carbine in 7.62x25.

That's pretty close. Hot rod it with some modern propellants and go to heavier bullets it could work.

Morne wrote:

walnut red wrote:Well, if your are avoiding necked down cases you could start with the 32 French Long MAS casing. Personally I would rather see a light carbine in 7.62x25.

That's pretty close. Hot rod it with some modern propellants and go to heavier bullets it could work.

And then we're back to the "Holding the gun together" phase of the exercise.