Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

First time I'm going to build an AR. I want to learn more about it. I bought 3 Spikes Tactical lowers yesterday. I've also got Magpul MOE grips, QD receiver end plates, and ALG Defense QMS triggers. For now, I'm going to build one lower and work out the kinks. If I like everything than I'm going to build the other two identical.

I have been searching all day yesterday and can't find any in-stock lower parts kits. Anyone know where to find some? Are there any manufacturers I should avoid?

Same for buffer tubes/buffers/springs. I'm going to stick to milspec or close to it. Any recommendations on sources?

What recommendations do you have for a good brass punch and hammer kit?

I also ordered the Tapco castle but wrench. Any other tools required to build a lower? I'll worry about the upper stuff once I get these 3 built. I'm considering a precision build and the other 2 being mid-length carbines.

I would suggest making a pivot pin detent install tool.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 26488.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Essentially it's just a round piece of metal with a hole the Detent spring and pin can slide through, then you rotate the tool to hold the detent and spring in place. Push the takedown pin into the lower using it to push out the pivot pin detent install tool. SUCCESS !!

no need to spend $$$ on one of these tools, you can use a piece of wooden dowel. I would also recommend placing everything inside a plastic bag when installing those detent pins, because if it gets away from you and shoots across the room, your build will be stalled by the loss of a $0.10 cent detent pin, that you now have to spend $3.99 to have shipped to you. (ask me how I know... )

^ +1.

That, or one of those fancy pivot pins that don't "require" the tool.

That tool ( or similar: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/919925 ... r-15-steel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) is certainly not a necessity, but as everyone who has built one or replaced one will attest to, it does make things a heck of a lot easier. I used a set of index cards folded over, greased with some cursing.

Wear eye protection. Get the pets and kiddos out of the room so they don't end up eating something in their eyes, too.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 26484.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ That little punch can help, too.

The M4Carbine.net "The Official Where Can I Get It" thread is an awesome tool:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php ... -It-Thread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was gonna suggest the BCM LPK, but you've already got triggers.... The Daniel Defense LPK also includes a factory trigger...could save it for backup? Colt LPKs are available with or without the FCG.

I'm not really sure about the variables involved with the LPKs outside of the FCG. There's a lot of trash-talk on the threads on the big AR Forums, and also plenty who say to just go with whatever's available/cheapest from the known names (Stag, DPMS, CMMG, PSA, etc.) if the FCG is not a concern. The depth of my knowledge pool here can be measured in inches, I'm afraid, so I'll defer to others here, for-sure.

I just assembled my first lower last week. I was following directions from AR15.com and it indicated that the pivot pin detent and spring were arguably the most difficult. I didn't have that tool, but managed with a hemostatic clamp to hold the detent by as I pushed it down into place, and held it with a flat piece of steel that was thin enough to allow the pivot pin to go into place. Fun stuff!

My friend who built his first AR recently has the pivot pin installation tool which I'm happy to hear based on hearing that's the hardest part. I'm also worried about breaking the ears off of the lower when installing the trigger guard. One YouTube video I watched, the installer used a protective piece of plastic and pressed the pin in using only a bench vise. Most videos I see use the usual hammer approach

I ordered an AR15 Armorer's punch set which has all the punches I should need for the roll pins et all. I have no punches so figured that's a good place to start. I also ordered a brass/nylon hammer to compliment that kit.

If you want to get fancy there's an AR bench block that will support the bottom ear on the Lower when inserting the roll pin for the trigger guard.. Quite honestly I just make sure I have firm support under the bottom ear with a small block of wood, and hammer that pin in without the fancy bench block. So far I haven't broken any ears.



Roll pin holders are nice for getting the roll pins started. I just purchased a set of these, haven't got to give them a workout yet, but it will certainly beat holding the pin with a pair of needle-nose pliers when I'm getting them started. .
http://www.amazon.com/Squirrel-Daddy-Ho ... 00QO2XGRW/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Standard roll pin punches have a nipple on the end to stay centered on roll pins when driving them in, would be used after the pin is started.
http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Roll-Pin-Pun ... 003L7HOMG/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While neat and handy I used none of the above in most of my builds, just a set of regular flat face brass punches, and some electrical tape to mask off the side of the receiver when inserting the Bolt Catch roll pin. Take it slow and easy. there's no extra points for getting it assembled in under 15 minutes. No-one cares how long it took to assemble, you'll get faster with each build. If you gouge the side of the receiver in a rush it will be kinda obvious, and not worth the couple minutes you may have saved by rushing.. A wrench and vise block for the upper receiver, and a set of brass punches really seemed like the only necessary tools, you can improvise for many of the rest like I described above with the detent pin tool.

Part of my goal in building a rifle is to save a few bucks and get exactly what I want. If I spend everything I would have saved on fancy tools I'll use only a couple times, then I didn't do something right. If I were building them as a business I'd have all the specialty AR tools. Check around you may find some more friends that have a variety of specialty tools you can borrow, so you don't need to buy things you may only use once or twice. One of my friends owns the upper vise blocks and wrench, so there was no need for me to buy them (Hurray for friends !!).

as for lower parts kits I haven't really noticed much difference between them.. maybe there is ???

Sherluk always sells lower parts kits up at Camp Perry I've used them Sherluk also sells all the individual parts.
http://www.sherluk.com/m16i.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've also used CMMG, PSA, and several of the RRA 2 Stage trigger lower parts kits.

Anderson sells a kit minus the trigger, so you can save a few bucks if you already have a nice drop in trigger assembly.
http://www.andersonrifles.com/product-c ... arts-kits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





TSiWRX nailed it with the eye protection as well, when dealing with those springs and pins. Good call.

Bruenor wrote:If you want to get fancy there's an AR bench block that will support the bottom ear on the Lower when inserting the roll pin for the trigger guard.. Quite honestly I just make sure I have firm support under the bottom ear with a small block of wood, and hammer that pin in without the fancy bench block. So far I haven't broken any ears.

....

While neat and handy I used none of the above in most of my builds, just a set of regular flat face brass punches, and some electrical tape to mask off the side of the receiver when inserting the Bolt Catch roll pin. Take it slow and easy. there's no extra points for getting it assembled in under 15 minutes. No-one cares how long it took to assemble, you'll get faster with each build. If you gouge the side of the receiver in a rush it will be kinda obvious, and not worth the couple minutes you may have saved by rushing.. A wrench and vise block for the upper receiver, and a set of brass punches really seemed like the only necessary tools, you can improvise for many of the rest like I described above with the detent pin tool.

I'm an old DSM ([D]iamond tar [M]otors) "mechanic," so I improvised pretty much all of it. I have no specialized tools, aside from what I made myself.

Like Brueor wrote, as long as you take your time and think through the steps, you really can foresee the potential problem areas, and take appropriate care - even if that's just taping-off the potential hit areas or using something firm (hey, there's a use for those old Yellow Pages, after all!) to offer proper support, you really will be A-OK.

If you wrench on your own car - and your car doesn't fall apart as you drive down the street or blow its engine - you'll be just fine wrenching on a firearm.

Great information, guys. I really look forward to picking up my lowers at AIM and getting the rest in. AIM has Anderson LPKs so I suppose I'll get some of those if they are selling the no-FCG kits.

I picked up my 3 stripped Spike's Tactical lowers from AIM today. I also see that PSA has LPKs in stock again! I'm ordering three of them with the MOE+ grip and w/o FCG for a great price.

Other parts I'm waiting on to be delivered:
AeroShell 33MS grease
AR Armorers punch kit
AR receiver extension wrench
3x ALG Defense QMS triggers
3x Spike's Tactical QD receiver extension plate

So I think I should have these lowers completed sometime next week...maybe the week after. What upper recommendations do you have?

I prefer mid-length, lightweight, and 1:7 twist. My DD M4v5 LW is spectacular in the weight department however it has been less than stellar in the reliability department which is a whole different project.

I also want one upper to be a precision setup that won't break the bank. I'm thinking 1:8 twist, 18", medium profile and a light keymod freefloat rail of some sort?

I keep hearing about the Manticore Arms Transformer rail.. It's a Free float rail, that is modular, Blanks, Keymod, and M-Lok so you can go anyway you want with it by swapping out panels. haven't got hands on with one yet though, but it's an interesting idea. ..

https://www.manticorearms.com/m-16-rifl ... -ar15.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First off let me say that I have ZERO knowledge of AR type firearms.
This was brought up on another state gun forum in regard to a members build of an AR47. That is, an AR setup for 7.62 x 39.

How accurate is one of these with the front sight on the barrel shroud around a full floating barrel?

AlanM wrote:First off let me say that I have ZERO knowledge of AR type firearms.
This was brought up on another state gun forum in regard to a members build of an AR47. That is, an AR setup for 7.62 x 39.

How accurate is one of these with the front sight on the barrel shroud around a full floating barrel?

I'd say it will get the job done, but that is not the right setup for a precision rifle with iron sights, close up I doubt it would be an issue. The whole point of free floating the rail is to avoid the flex of any pressure put on the handguard altering the POA/POI, so the front sight on a handguard that can flex, while the barrel isn't obviously is not the best scenario.
If the front sight is mounted on the rail in that fashion, it's usually just a backup in case the Optics mounted on the receiver fail, it's not the primary aiming device.

ArmedAviator wrote:I picked up my 3 stripped Spike's Tactical lowers from AIM today. I also see that PSA has LPKs in stock again! I'm ordering three of them with the MOE+ grip and w/o FCG for a great price.

Other parts I'm waiting on to be delivered:
AeroShell 33MS grease
AR Armorers punch kit
AR receiver extension wrench
3x ALG Defense QMS triggers
3x Spike's Tactical QD receiver extension plate

So I think I should have these lowers completed sometime next week...maybe the week after.

If you're like me and impatient on shipping, you'll want to be aware that PSA's shipping time can be quite variable. They currently quote 5 working days to ship ( http://palmettostatearmory.com/faqs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). Uppers and FFL items can both take even longer. I - along with many others on various gun-Forums and gun-hobby sub-Forums - have had tremendously variable experiences with their fulfillment times.

What upper recommendations do you have?

I prefer mid-length, lightweight, and 1:7 twist. My DD M4v5 LW is spectacular in the weight department however it has been less than stellar in the reliability department which is a whole different project.

What's going on with the DD upper?

They should be mechanically very reliable, and CS should be beyond capable and supportive. In your shoes, I'd be highly motivated to pursue any problems, given these two parameters. [ Mine, as with many others' DDs, has been absolutely rock-solid, and I recently retired it to HD-only, and as a backup for training. But hey, it's a mass-produced mechanical item, problems can happen. ]

I have a DDM4V5LW, too, and I agree, for a quad-rail gun, it's pretty light. LegoGlock knows how hard I searched to piece together what I want http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/ar15-lowe ... ns.279799/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The biggest decision now, I feel, is really your personal preference for M-Lok versus KeyMod. It's pretty easy to find a lightweight setup (including mounting hardware) with variance in only fractions of an ounce after you've made this decision. Keeping the rail reasonably short (i.e. how big of a guy are you - do you really need that 15" rail, or is it just for looks? ) as well as going with a lightweight barrel profile of some type or another will be the your primary weight-savers, in terms of the upper, unless you're willing to start also shaving things like the forward-assist and the BCG, and to start pursuing even smaller returns from things like the dust cover.

I also want one upper to be a precision setup that won't break the bank. I'm thinking 1:8 twist, 18", medium profile and a light keymod freefloat rail of some sort?

^ I can't help you on this one. My rather shallow pool of knowledge where it comes to ARs taps out right about where the word "precision" comes up.


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Bruenor wrote:I keep hearing about the Manticore Arms Transformer rail.. It's a Free float rail, that is modular, Blanks, Keymod, and M-Lok so you can go anyway you want with it by swapping out panels. haven't got hands on with one yet though, but it's an interesting idea. ..

https://www.manticorearms.com/m-16-rifl ... -ar15.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ Neat!

Honestly, you don't need fancy tools to install the bolt catch roll pin or the trigger guard roll pin without damaging the ears. You just need vice grips and some tape on the jaws to prevent scratches.

http://www.ar15howto.com/how-to-assembl ... r15-lower/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The pivot pin detent is actually relatively easy to install. Put the detent and spring in the hole, and take the pivot pin to rotate 90* so the hole isn't in line with the detent. Use a thin flat head screw driver and compress the detent flush, then put the pivot pin over the screw driver and work it into the hole as far as you can without jamming it up. Remove the screwdriver, insert it half way, and rotate the pin to engage the detent with the slot in the pin.

I put my first build together using a penny nail and vice grips. The only thime I've ever needed tools was for barrel swaps and very few stock swaps.

TSiWRX wrote:What's going on with the DD upper?

They should be mechanically very reliable, and CS should be beyond capable and supportive. In your shoes, I'd be highly motivated to pursue any problems, given these two parameters. [ Mine, as with many others' DDs, has been absolutely rock-solid, and I recently retired it to HD-only, and as a backup for training. But hey, it's a mass-produced mechanical item, problems can happen. ]

I have a DDM4V5LW, too, and I agree, for a quad-rail gun, it's pretty light. LegoGlock knows how hard I searched to piece together what I want http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/ar15-lowe ... ns.279799/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been having Bolt over Brass issues since day one. I've tried all the mags I have and re-tested them in my Stag which works flawlessly. Also, when I removed the original DD grip to install the MOE grip, the threads were stripped so I had to re-tap bigger threads to mount the grip. I just am not happy with it like I thought I would. I'll be contacting DD soon to get things rectified. I'll deal with that after I move next month.


Also, I never heard of M-LOK before. Upon doing some reading...I might go that route instead of KeyMod.