Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

OK, every year around this time Mrs. NavyChief asks what I want for my birthday. She knows it's gonna be a firearm or firearm related. This year I'd really like to fill a long-time whole in the safe - a K-frame. But I'd like it to be a 3" .357. I know Models 19, 65* & 66 were available. What am I missing? I'm sure at one time I did know, but that knowledge has slipped through the cracks.

* And right now, the 65 is kinda what I'm leaning toward. What was the blued equivalent?

Model 13 is the blued version of the Mod 65. Fixed sights and NO shrouded ejector rod as the Models 19/66 have.

Now for a minor second, allow me to MAYBE throw a wrench in the works. If you fear... STOP reading here.

Okay then. I have always been deeply in love with S&W revolvers and I cut my teeth on a K-22 and a six inch 686. The K-frame .357 has long been heralded as the perfect blend of size, power, fit, etc. It was Bill Jordan who pushed so heavily for S&W to chamber the medium K-frame in .357 in the first place. He argued that a working cop needed the power of .357 Mag but the bulk and weight of the N-frame was too much for a long shift in full uniform and gear.

S&W had no inkling to make them but they went that route anyway and the "Combat Magnum" arrived in the mid-50's. It was the pre-Model 19. Full .357 Magnum but built on what had only ever been the .38 Special frame. (Well, it had also been the .32 Long and .22LR as well) Up until that debut, the .357 had only ever been chambered in the large N-frame.

Here is where some folks might bring up some what of a reputation for questionable durability with full magnum loads... with a side trip discussion on how it's more the light bullet magnum fodder that invites these problems. But for my point, it's not relevant.

My point is that as much as I absolutely -LOVE- .357 Magnum, I have yet to find amy K-frame where I enjoy shooting it. I've done 3's, 4's and 6" K-frame .357 with a litany of different grips and stock and none of them are enjoyable to me.

Also, back in the day, it wasy belief and line of thinking that "hey, I only want to shoot .38 but these .357's must be helluva lot stronger!" but I have to say, I am not sure there is any truth to it. My Models 10/64 simply aren't going to wear out and I think I love them more each time I shoot them.

I think...
If your dream of a 3" K-frame .357 has genuine carry/defense in mind, I would rubber-stamp it as a fine (albeit pricey) venture. It will be a genuine example of "try it with magnum, know it work, but practice with .38"

But if your end goal is a fantastic revolver for many range days and smiles...
Save some dough and chase the Models 10, 15, 64 and 67. Or if you luck in to a gorgeous 6" target .38, the Model 14.

I got great and very fortunate deals on a 6" Model 66 and a 4" Model 19 but no matter the ammo (popgun .38 all the way to full Magnum and everything along the spectrum), either my 10 or 64 (4" heavy barrel) is better in my hands in every way.

The 10 and the 13 are super-similar, if it odd that doesn't work for you?

The 19 always felt a little difference, I agree.

The 3" model 66 was made in smallish batches a couple times, presumably for some specific agency contracts. I've owned two (foolishly traded off the first, took a ling time to replace it at a decent price) and have through the years handled several others.

Never did I encounter one which didn't have a slicker-than-normal action, from the factory. That can't be coincidence, the specs for both runs must have included tuning.

Does that make them worth the prices demanded nowadays? I don't know.

If you want to step up to a similar L frame, look for a 3" or 4" Model 686 with CS prefix in the serial number. Those were made for the U.S. Customs Service, and again all the ones I've been around were factory tuned. But again expect a hefty price tag.

Brian D. wrote:...snip...

If you want to step up to a similar L frame, look for a 3" or 4" Model 686 with CS prefix in the serial number. Those were made for the U.S. Customs Service, and again all the ones I've been around were factory tuned. But again expect a hefty price tag.

Okay, you seem to have knowledge that I lack. (I apologize for the hijack Chief.)

How much would an unfired 4" Model 686 with serial number CVA04XX in original case with what comes in it be worth?

The revolver you are talking about is different than the one Brian D is talking about. His is from the late 80's, yours sounds more like around 2000 or 2001. The CS revolvers are limited and quite pricey.

Yours is closer to what they are offering today...
ANIB, all original goodies, I'm better at pricing used guns and yours sounds more like NOS. I would imagine it would settle around maybe...$750?

Sevens wrote:The revolver you are talking about is different than the one Brian D is talking about. His is from the late 80's, yours sounds more like around 2000 or 2001. The CS revolvers are limited and quite pricey.

Yours is closer to what they are offering today...
ANIB, all original goodies, I'm better at pricing used guns and yours sounds more like NOS. I would imagine it would settle around maybe...$750?

Thanks for the reply.
I think it's even newer than that.
It also has the "Hillary lock" with 2 keys.
Envelope with fired shell in box is dated 12-4-2013.

Yeah, I'm no giid with serial numbers past about 1999, at least for the time being until the Fourth Edition of the SCSW comes out.

So how did you end up with a NIB, two year old revolver that nobody has ever shot?

Brother in law died, sister wants me to see what I can get for it.

btw, it's a 686-8.
Also have a new, never installed or used, LaserGrip LG-306 to go with it.

As a side note, the lock guns are worth less than pre-lock guns. Speaking in general terms, 25% average. But a BNIB gun, probably less gap on that one due to being brand new.

NavyChief:

I have a couple of K-frames. One's a 4" Model 10HB (.38Spl), and the other is it's big brother, a 6" Model 19 in .357 Magnum. Both are blued, circa 1968, and have incredibly smooth triggers in SA mode. (DA's not bad, either!)

They're reliable, and other than simple cleaning, haven't needed much work since I bought 'em in the late 60's.

However, the M19 really has a longer and stronger cylinder, and may have a somewhat better barrel, but you don't want to shoot it with the hot stuff more than once in a while. The rest of the gun isn't that solid.

As was mentioned elsewhere, the K-frames are lighter, and I wore the M19 as a uniform gun for several years. The M10HB is only slightly lighter, but the 6" barrel made that gun a little harder to carry. I bought the M10HB because I couldn't hit anything with a snubby, and wanted something for concealment. (In those days a little printing wasn't a problem.) I'm big enough to get away with the 4".... I tried to find a 4" M19 at the time, but couldn't.

Just IMHO, "urban" LEO's (including me, as a rental) really didn't need the .357. Maybe out West, or on the highway, but not here. Today's SD ammunition in .380 is almost enough. The K-frame does eat up some of the recoil of a .38Spl v.s. a snubby, an an N-frame doesn't seem to have any recoil at all with those .... The K-frame with .357's, well, you'll notice, but it's not too terrible.

My vote for concealed revolvers is the 3" K-frame, or even a 3" on the smaller Chief's Special frame. The longer barrel is a lot of help, IMHO. Don't hide from a 4" K-frame, either, if one walks by. They'll carry just about as well. The grip and grip frame is really the killer in concealment. I'm not sure how long I wore that M10HB in an IWB.

Stay away from the ultra-lightweights, too, especially in .357. You may end up having to sell it, or park it in a drawer. They bite....

A quick story: A buddy of mine owns a bunch of semi's - .380 through .45ACP, but no revolvers. (He actually had shot my 6" M19.) So, he bought a 4" Revolver (SP101?) and took it down to the range. He's loading it with .38 Spl rounds and notices how long the case is. "Wow, that's going to hurt! Look at the size of that thing." He finally steeled himself and dropped the hammer on one. "Poof".... Not a hang fire or other problem. The .38 Spl round in a fairly heavy (.357-rated) revolver is a pussycat . (As is the .44Spl.)

BTW, other than commonality of ammunition, a .44Spl "feels" like a .38Spl in a fairly heavy framed gun. Don't walk away from one of those.

(Buy several of each .)

Regards,

Dunno if 3" is a deal breaker, but they also made 2.5", which might even be easier to find... Ejector rod is not full length if that matters, but I luv my 2.5" no-dash 66 as much as my 3" 65-5.