Pulled my gun for the first time yesterday afternoon

[MacDonald]

No, it was not for a human...not directly, anyway.

I live in Warren County, across the street from a public park. MANY times I have been in the park and dog owners allow their (sometimes large) dogs off leash, despite the leash law in the city. These dogs have ranged from Lhasa Apsos size to Pit Bull. I have been charged by a Jindo, a Huskey, German Shepard mixes, and large Poodles. A few of these breeds concern me, and an altercation with the Jindo owner three years ago when he flashed his gun at me (while asking if I really wanted to continue the argument) was the catalyst for me to obtain my CHL.

I have two Yorkshire Terriers which, although brave, would not fare well in a dog fight and can offer little protection other than diversion. So, after I got my CHL I started carrying a bat to the park. One day a Pit Bull left what appeared to be a child's party and started approaching me while I was walking my dogs. I had my bat, but knew it would do little to stop a dog this size. Luckily, the owner chased after the dog and restrained it.

This week I started carrying into the park when I walk my dogs. The first time was my Shield, but I am more accurate with my Glock 26 with CT, so I decided to start carrying that consistently. Yesterday, while not the first day I EVER carried it into the park, it was the first time after my decision to carry that one consistently. As I was entering the park, I saw a woman with a Shepard mix, taking pictures of her dog as it romped about 30-feet in front of her. It saw me enter the park with my dogs, and charged, barking furiously. She turned to see where her dog was going, and started lamely calling to it, "Here Texan. Here Texan."

I reeled in the extendable leashes I use, but my dogs were excited and ran circles, tangling me up.As the lady was still calling to her dog, it began to circle behind me, baking all the time. As I was turning, I pulled my G26. After what seemed forever, I heard he say, "Oh no! Don't shoot!" I told her to control her dog, and she replied she would get him.

She finally rushed up from what was now behind me, and took control of her animal. It surprised me how suddenly responsible a dog when becomes when they see the person their dogs is charging/attacking means business and produces a means of defense.

I was attacked by a Doberman while riding my bike on a residential street when I was 12 years old in Orange County, CA. It will not happen again.

I LOVE dogs, but damn these people who neither train their animals nor restrain them in public. There is a dog park nearby if owners want to keep their dogs off leash, especially large dogs.

Okay, other pet owners can go ahead and start telling me how unreasonable I am being! But, I am not going to be willingly bitten first.

[carmen fovozzo]

You need but take your cell phone as soon as you see a dog off of it's leash and call the police...tell them you think there will be a dog attack....While waiting for LE to arrive, if a dog attacks your dog YOUR only option is the BAT..Not the gun...If the dog attacks you shoot the thing...

[Brian D.]

A few of these breeds concern me, and an altercation with the Jindo owner three years ago when he flashed his gun at me (while asking if I really wanted to continue the argument) was the catalyst for me to obtain my CHL.

I'll get to the part I quoted after offering a bit of more general advice: Take some video of the off-leash activity (illegally) going on in that park for a period of time, and present it at a city council meeting. Perhaps also make a few spoken remarks about "safety of the children present" etcetera if that facility has any kind of playground equipment. (That part may be close to histrionics but it's really hard for any elected official to rebut, as we see all the time in political stories from around the country.)

And of course remind them that there is a perfectly appropriate park nearby that is designed specifically for letting the dogs go off-leash.


Now to address the quoted part of your post: If it happened as you stated, I sure hope that Jindo owner isn't a licensed concealed carrier. Going from verbal disagreement straight to "flashing gun" is a worse no-no than going right from "I dare you" to "I triple dog dare you". Sorry, sometimes I use a bit of humor, good or bad, to keep my posts from coming off as harsh, but hopefully still get my point across.

[MacDonald]

These are good advice! However, on retractable leashes that I had pulled in, and then become entangled, my dogs were less than 18-inches from me. There was no way to be sure that I was not the intended target of the offending canine. AND, very recently (within the past six months), there was a case in Warren County of a dog shooting where the judge made reference that the victim of the attack had to defend his dog so it would not be killed. I know what the ORC says, but to Hades with that! If I am convicted for defending myself or my property, then I am convicted. I will still defend myself and my property.

[pirateguy191]

Retractable leashes are bad. Glad everything worked out for you.

[rickt]

an altercation with the Jindo owner three years ago when he flashed his gun at me (while asking if I really wanted to continue the argument) was the catalyst for me to obtain my CHL.

I would have called the police. If he had a CHL, it would have quickly disappeared after he was charged with menacing.

[carmen fovozzo]

Hard to believe that someone flashed their gun at you and you shrugged it off with out doing anything about it....

Your first priority should be to yourself and family not your dog...
If I had a dog I'd find another place to walk it, with all the crap going on at the place you go to...

A dog is not worth being arrested over, going to jail, or becoming a felon...

[Werz]

And of course remind them that there is a perfectly appropriate park nearby that is designed specifically for letting the dogs go off-leash.

I always read these posts closely to determine if it's an off-leash "dog park." Some people are ignorant of canine behavior, and because their dogs are poorly socialized, they think that any large dog approaching their little muffin for a sniff is "attacking" it. To quote Cesar Milan, "[A] weak, timid dog *** can become a fight-magnet. *** If your dog has poor social skills, is overly fearful or is dog aggressive, *** find a more controlled way to introduce her to the company of other dogs[.]"

(Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/tips/basics/ce ... -park-tips" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

If someone shoots one of my dogs at an off-leash "dog park" because they want to sniff the new dog, there will be hell to pay.

[MacDonald]

I did not shrug off the guy who flashed his gun at me. I immediately got on my cell and called 911. He apparently saw me because he quickly drove off. I had just relocated to Lebanon, and did not know the name of the park. I tried to memorize the plate, but guess I got it wrong because the cop to whom I was speaking said that car was registered in Northern OH, not local. I told the officer that the guy DID NOT POINT the gun at me, he only showed it to me by pulling his open shirt back and placing his hand on his stomach. After I explained that the officer was not very motivated to do much.

As for becoming a felon for my dogs...that is not my idea. However, if I am being attacked by a canine can't I defend myself from it? During summer, I stopped a LEO one day in this same park, identified myself (I was not carrying at the time), told him I had a CHL, and asked about the possibility of this exact incident. He told me that if I was in fear of attack, I would be justified. He explained that is not much different than the requirements imposed on him. I was acting on the belief from conversing with him. In fact, I emailed LPD that very day expressing gratitude to the Chief for this office (I did not get his name, but specified the time of day and location...did not help, as the Chief responded that was insufficient info to ID the officer).

My going to the dog park is a good idea, but I have just as much right to enjoy this park as anyone else, free of intimidation and harassment, just like anyone else. I carry my iPhone with me, but filming a dog approaching me in a menacing manner is not my first thought, defending myself is.

In the future, if this ever happened again (yes, I am relatively new to CCW...only got my CHL 06/18/12) would you more experienced members advise mt to call LE to report the incident, even if there was nothing to really report? Of course I did not get the owner's name or address. She just finally got her dog (which ran into the street) and left.

To Werz: Again, the park I am referring to IS NOT a dog park. The dog did not appear to be approaching for a sniff, as it was barking furiously. There IS a leash law in the city I am in. Why should I have to wait for the dog to sniff me, bite me, or whatever else if the dog owner wants to disregard the law and shirk their responsibility to control their animal?
If this WAS a dog park, I would not have reacted the way I did. Dog parks are meant for off-leash, public parks are not.

[BobK]

I did not shrug off the guy who flashed his gun at me. I immediately got on my cell and called 911. He apparently saw me because he quickly drove off. I had just relocated to Lebanon, and did not know the name of the park. I tried to memorize the plate, but guess I got it wrong because the cop to whom I was speaking said that car was registered in Northern OH, not local. I told the officer that the guy DID NOT POINT the gun at me, he only showed it to me by pulling his open shirt back and placing his hand on his stomach. After I explained that the officer was not very motivated to do much.

As for becoming a felon for my dogs...that is not my idea. However, if I am being attacked by a canine can't I defend myself from it? During summer, I stopped a LEO one day in this same park, identified myself (I was not carrying at the time), told him I had a CHL, and asked about the possibility of this exact incident. He told me that if I was in fear of attack, I would be justified. He explained that is not much different than the requirements imposed on him. I was acting on the belief from conversing with him. In fact, I emailed LPD that very day expressing gratitude to the Chief for this office (I did not get his name, but specified the time of day and location...did not help, as the Chief responded that was insufficient info to ID the officer).

My going to the dog park is a good idea, but I have just as much right to enjoy this park as anyone else, free of intimidation and harassment, just like anyone else. I carry my iPhone with me, but filming a dog approaching me in a menacing manner is not my first thought, defending myself is.

In the future, if this ever happened again (yes, I am relatively new to CCW...only got my CHL 06/18/12) would you more experienced members advise mt to call LE to report the incident, even if there was nothing to really report? Of course I did not get the owner's name or address. She just finally got her dog (which ran into the street) and left.

To Werz: Again, the park I am referring to IS NOT a dog park. The dog did not appear to be approaching for a sniff, as it was barking furiously. There IS a leash law in the city I am in. Why should I have to wait for the dog to sniff me, bite me, or whatever else if the dog owner wants to disregard the law and shirk their responsibility to control their animal?
If this WAS a dog park, I would not have reacted the way I did. Dog parks are meant for off-leash, public parks are not.

You reacted correctly in both instances. I wouldn't sweat it.

My attitude is no different from all the law enforcement/dog stories we read: I am not required to accept being bitten before using deadly force on any animal.

[Curzyk]

I carry my iPhone with me, but filming a dog approaching me in a menacing manner is not my first thought, defending myself is.

I think you may have misunderstood the suggestion of filming. The suggestion was to go to the park with the purpose of collecting evidence of how rampant the violation of the leash law is. That information prepares you for a constructive (and more likely favorable) discussion with officials. Perhaps they would assign an officer to the park to warn and possibly even issue citations to those violators and reduce/remove the problem from the park, thus allowing you to use it in peace as you indicated is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

[carmen fovozzo]

MaCDonald....your on the right track...that was a good post....

Some people will protect their dog before they consider protecting another human they don't know....never could figure that out..

[MacDonald]

Thank y'all for your comments. I was once advised, by a cop, to video dogs approaching when they are menacing. I don't know if he was delusional, but I would be more concerned with stopping the four legged threat as my first choice. Then, there may be a two legged threat (he said dryly, tongue-in-cheek) from an angry dog owner. Bear spray would be a good alternative, but that would not work on windy/breezy days.

I have owned two German Sheppards, a Rottwieler, and a Pitt in my twenties through forties. I know the importance of socializing and training dogs, especially large ones capable of inflicting damage. I now live in a townhouse. While I would love to have a larger breed, it would be highly unfair to the dog. Besides, small dogs live longer, if they are not eaten first.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...

So, after I got my CHL I started carrying a bat to the park.

...

I did not know a CHL was required to carry a bat.

[Brian D.]

I carry my iPhone with me, but filming a dog approaching me in a menacing manner is not my first thought, defending myself is.

I think you may have misunderstood the suggestion of filming. The suggestion was to go to the park with the purpose of collecting evidence of how rampant the violation of the leash law is. That information prepares you for a constructive (and more likely favorable) discussion with officials. Perhaps they would assign an officer to the park to warn and possibly even issue citations to those violators and reduce/remove the problem from the park, thus allowing you to use it in peace as you indicated is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

Curzyk, thanks for expanding on the idea offered in my post. This tactic has been used by citizens to document all manner of illegal activities. It then becomes impossible for elected officials and those who work under them to say "We didn't know" and get away with, or delay dealing with, such matters.