NRA "Blended Training"

[Talon]

The NRA announced today that they are officially moving ahead with an online portion of training. The intent is to allow for students to conduct the majority of the classroom training on line before attending an actual CCW class.

If you too read this article, how might this affect the 12 hour Ohio training law? I am an instructor and support shortened classes but wonder if I will eventually be able to conduct a shorter class in Ohio.

Your thoughts?

Kyle

[JediSkipdogg]

The ORC allows for "online" training in a sense.

(1) Each course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section shall provide to each person who takes the course, class, or program the web site address at which the pamphlet prepared by the Ohio peace officer training commission pursuant to section 109.731 of the Revised Code that reviews firearms, dispute resolution, and use of deadly force matters may be found. Each such course, class, or program described in one of those divisions shall include at least twelve hours of training in the safe handling and use of a firearm that shall include all of the following:

(a) At least ten hours of training on the following matters:

(i) The ability to name, explain, and demonstrate the rules for safe handling of a handgun and proper storage practices for handguns and ammunition;

(ii) The ability to demonstrate and explain how to handle ammunition in a safe manner;

(iii) The ability to demonstrate the knowledge, skills, and attitude necessary to shoot a handgun in a safe manner;

(iv) Gun handling training.

(b) At least two hours of training that consists of range time and live-fire training.

(2) To satisfactorily complete the course, class, or program described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section, the applicant shall pass a competency examination that shall include both of the following:

(a) A written section on the ability to name and explain the rules for the safe handling of a handgun and proper storage practices for handguns and ammunition;

(b) A physical demonstration of competence in the use of a handgun and in the rules for safe handling and storage of a handgun and a physical demonstration of the attitude necessary to shoot a handgun in a safe manner.

The problem is...

(3) The competency certification described in division (B)(3)(a), (b), (c), or (e) of this section shall be dated and shall attest that the course, class, or program the applicant successfully completed met the requirements described in division (G)(1) of this section and that the applicant passed the competency examination described in division (G)(2) of this section.

If I'm the one that can be prosecuted and the one that must issue the final certificate due to the range requirements, there is no way I'm certifying and swearing that they took ten hours on the online portion of the class. How can I swear to a class time limit when I have no clue how long they really took? And I'm not going to be the test subject in court for that.

I do think this may help to change the ORC some. It's unfortunately not soon enough to get the change in say HB203, so it might have to be a change next year. If the ORC is changed, I would eliminate the time limit minus the range part. Mandate they take and pass the NRA online course and then have two hours of range time with a certified instructor.

[SMMAssociates]

The wife is currently taking "competency" courses on-line for her employer. I think the State mandated something, and her management is so cheap that they went the web site route.

No idea how staffers who lack PC's at home are supposed to participate, but I guess something was set up. In our case, the wife is a total computer-phobe. So I get to "take" the course, too. (Well, actually, click the "next page" buttons. )

That said, each hour is fairly well presented, and includes a couple dozen questions that she has to answer, inside the presentation, and later during an exam that covers the section at the end.

Last year's courses were apparently set up by somebody's nephew - not a lot of quality, but they worked fairly well. This year's setup seems to be a tad more professionally done.

How this'd scale to 10 hours, though, over a very short time (maybe a month?), I don't know. No question that you'd have to "come in" for the actual range time part, and maybe an hour or so of the "this is a gun" stuff. (I think the same "here's a trigger" poster in every firearms course I've taken in more than 40 years was on the wall.... They did add one for semi-autos somewhere along the line ....)

Presuming the non-range portion of the course included some testing, not the worst thing that could be done - this sort of thing really isn't all that unusual.

Just between us chickens, though, I'd prefer a longer classroom session than probably would result. Watching Amy work with Matt was a hoot. She's not totally "leave the wife and kiddies", but pretty close .... Seriously, there's an interaction between the students and the instructors, and some networking with the other students, too.

(When I did OPOTA back in the late 60's, the networking was very worthwhile. Met all kinds of people. Less so with the CHL class, but it didn't last as long .)

The short answer, may be "if it's done well"....

Regards,

[BobK]

If I'm the one that can be prosecuted and the one that must issue the final certificate due to the range requirements, there is no way I'm certifying and swearing that they took ten hours on the online portion of the class.

We have mandatory company-wide training on certain topics that are conducted online. The online screens and quiz questions are all timed so that we can be assured that "Mr Doe took 4 hours required training in XXXX" is both accurate and will be defensible in court. This isn't rocket science anymore -- online training is a well developed market.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

And we always have the option of developing our own curriculum and test.

The NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course effectively fills up 8 of the 12 hours, but it isn't a requirement.

ORC requires the course use NRA certified instructors, not NRA content.

[Tweed Ring]

The NRA will stand behind their test if challenged in court. If one creates one's own test, how will one defend this creation, if subsequently challenged in court?

[JediSkipdogg]

And we always have the option of developing our own curriculum and test.

The NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course effectively fills up 8 of the 12 hours, but it isn't a requirement.

ORC requires the course use NRA certified instructors, not NRA content.

Partial problem is the NRA is considering requiring instructors to teach their class at least once is two years to maintain certification. It's not final, but I would expect that to happen in the near future. If that change happens it basically forces one to teach an NRA course or they risk losing their certification. I haven't taught a class in a while, but unless one regularly teaches classes, they have no guarantee of their next class.

[mreising]

Partial problem is the NRA is considering requiring instructors to teach their class at least once is two years to maintain certification. It's not final, but I would expect that to happen in the near future. If that change happens it basically forces one to teach an NRA course or they risk losing their certification. I haven't taught a class in a while, but unless one regularly teaches classes, they have no guarantee of their next class.

Actually, the NRA used to require instructors to maintain teaching proficiency by teaching at least one course a year or their renewal would not be allowed, I believe that went away several years ago. They are also going to require the same of training counselors to maintain their TC certification. Having had to cancel two instructor courses earlier this year, due to lack of students, I will need to be scheduling one sometime this year to maintain my certs.

Regarding the online portion: A good learning management system will have timed portions where you must spend the required "class" time and it will have some sort of "deadman switch" that requires periodic responses from the student to make sure they aren't just letting the training run by itself. The problem I see in the online training is verifying that the student who is manipulating the computer is also the one showing up for class. We also had several students (mostly elderly) over the years that did not have email, so I assume they did not have internet access, or maybe even a computer.

[JediSkipdogg]

Partial problem is the NRA is considering requiring instructors to teach their class at least once is two years to maintain certification. It's not final, but I would expect that to happen in the near future. If that change happens it basically forces one to teach an NRA course or they risk losing their certification. I haven't taught a class in a while, but unless one regularly teaches classes, they have no guarantee of their next class.

Actually, the NRA used to require instructors to maintain teaching proficiency by teaching at least one course a year or their renewal would not be allowed, I believe that went away several years ago. They are also going to require the same of training counselors to maintain their TC certification. Having had to cancel two instructor courses earlier this year, due to lack of students, I will need to be scheduling one sometime this year to maintain my certs.

Since you may know more.....If one is certified in say 5 of thier classes, does one have to teach each class once or just one class overall?

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Good question.

Since a renewal now covers all your ratings, regardless of how many you have, I would suspect the same applies for the teaching requirement. I think it would be more important to keep your teaching skills fresh and less important as to which course was taught.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

The NRA will stand behind their test if challenged in court. If one creates one's own test, how will one defend this creation, if subsequently challenged in court?

The content of the test is not mandated in the ORC.

Also, the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting course only covers 8 hours of the 12 required by the ORC.

I think in either case, NRA content or non-NRA content, having the appropriate insurance policy would be prudent.

[Tweed Ring]

The NRA will stand behind their test if challenged in court. If one creates one's own test, how will one defend this creation, if subsequently challenged in court?

The content of the test is not mandated in the ORC.

Also, the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting course only covers 8 hours of the 12 required by the ORC.

I think in either case, NRA content or non-NRA content, having the appropriate insurance policy would be prudent.

It's easier to defend the NRA test, if one is called into court, unless one is a specialist in creating tests. I was once tasked with writing defensible tests for entry level employees. after undergoing the training, and meeting with a lawyer, I recommended we buy "off the shelf" tests with boilerplate language. You are free to draft your own test: one who writes a test may have to defend it in court.

[747tech]

Nothing said you can't use then basic pistol course curriculum in your class even when blended training occurs. Just call it your own non NRA course but use their curriculum and test then add whatever you may like to fill any remaining time. I have done this and in the certificate (non NRA) I issue I state the basic pistol curriculum was part of the training.