Ohio Law and College Policy Conflict?

[Loubuzz]

Hey Folks,

Bear with me a minute. I've studied Ohio's "Blue Book" and felt comfortable bringing protection with me to a college campus - understanding full well that it needed to stay in the car in the parking lot. However, a closer look at door postings that "prohibit" carrying on the "premises" made me curious about the college's official policy on firearms. The policy reads verbatim:

Firearms and other weapons. Except as set forth in this policy, no person may carry or use weapons on College property. For the purposes of this policy, weapons are defined to be guns, knives, or any other dangerous instrument.
(1) The College’s Campus Police and Security Services Law Enforcement Officers, acting within the scope of their employment, may carry and use weapons on College property.
(2) Weapons may be used for educational purposes within College approved curriculum, including without limitation the Police and Security Training Academy and Criminal Justice Institute.
(3) Individuals (other than Campus Police and Security Services Law Enforcement Officers) who bring weapons onto College property for educational purposes may do so only after first obtaining a permit for each such weapon from the Department of Campus Police and Security Services. Such permits shall be limited to such times and locations as may be reasonably necessary to support educational purposes.

Given the statement includes the term "property," I'm now thinking that I can't have protection in the cabin or the trunk of the car. If stopped by campus police for any reason and possessing a firearm in the cabin, I will need to declare it and (I THINK) put me in violation of the policy. If I place my protection in the trunk of the car I don't have to declare to the LEO but am still at risk of violation of the policy should the trunk be opened for some reason (e.g., an accident).

If I am found in violation of the policy, I have a lot to lose - either through litigation expense or loss of income. Perhaps, I need a lawyer. But I would like to ask for your help first.

Anyone faced with this problem and found a solution that protects their right to defend themselves to and from a college campus and while in the parking lot?

I'm sorry but I can't accept any answers that say "just don't get caught!"

Thanks for your time and consideration.

P.S., I never carry in the buildings, though the place would be safer if I did

[JediSkipdogg]

You are correct as of right now. Legally, you can keep the firearm in the trunk of your car. In almost, if not all, college campuses they prohibit students to posses firearms on their campuses. It's on a student code of conduct violation, but one I would assume is taken very seriously.

If you don't want the "just don't get caught" option then your only other options are to not keep it in your vehicle at college or park off campus at all times and not drive through campus.

[techguy85]

Until and unless someone challenges these rules in court being in violation of R.C. 9.68, the answer you got above is what we are dealing with...

[WestonDon]

Are you a student or employee of the university?

If you are a student you could be subject to expulsion.

If you are an employee you could be subject to termination. I am sure the forum HR expert will be along shortly to expand on the choices.

[Loubuzz]

Are you a student or employee of the university?

If you are a student you could be subject to expulsion.

If you are an employee you could be subject to termination. I am sure the forum HR expert will be along shortly to expand on the choices.

A 15-year employee who would like to make it to 30 years!

[BB62]

Hey Folks,

Bear with me a minute. I've studied Ohio's "Blue Book" and felt comfortable bringing protection with me to a college campus - understanding full well that it needed to stay in the car in the parking lot. However, a closer look at door postings that "prohibit" carrying on the "premises" made me curious about the college's official policy on firearms. The policy reads verbatim...:

What college is this? Are you an employee or a student?

[Loubuzz]

Hey Folks,

What college is this? Are you an employee or a student?

a public institution in NE Ohio and an employee

[WestonDon]

Given the statement includes the term "property," I'm now thinking that I can't have protection in the cabin or the trunk of the car. If stopped by campus police for any reason and possessing a firearm in the cabin, I will need to declare it and (I THINK) put me in violation of the policy. If I place my protection in the trunk of the car I don't have to declare to the LEO but am still at risk of violation of the policy should the trunk be opened for some reason (e.g., an accident).

If I am found in violation of the policy, I have a lot to lose - either through litigation expense or loss of income. Perhaps, I need a lawyer.

I think you have a clear understanding of the situation. Except for the part about litigation expenses. Litigation is futile. Loss of income is a certainty. Sucks but that's the way it is.

[Tweed Ring]

Look at your employee handbook. That's clearly guidance. Please do not go to HR with questions and/or complaints. Your options are limited, unless you have tenure. With tenure, you may have a few more options.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

The policy you provided says "carry" and "use", but having a firearm in a car, as I have found it used in Ohio Revised Code, would be "transporting" and "storing".

I would have someone you know ask the school about the Ohio law that allows a CHL holder to store their handgun in a vehicle on college property.

[Loubuzz]

Look at your employee handbook. That's clearly guidance. Please do not go to HR with questions and/or complaints. Your options are limited, unless you have tenure. With tenure, you may have a few more options.

I am tenured which makes jeopardizing the position even more scary. Perhaps I will have a face to face with our faculty union president. He, like me, is conservative and understands the potential threats we face in the parking lots on campus.

While the chances of an incident are rare, each semester is another opportunity for a student to become disgruntled and choose violence as a solution to their problem. In fact, in the Cleveland area, there are daily reports of residents choosing violence as a response to a problem they face - and you know that I'm not just talking about preventing getting caught in the commission of a crime. Examples include shots fired at houseparties, shots fired at bar patrons at closing time, a man firing a shot at his house after an argument with his wife, and well I'm sure you can provide more examples.

The college police force is available but not very visible. They do not seem to "walk a beat" but instead idle their squad cars in one of the many parking lots often while talking on the phone.

Finally, and off the subject a bit, let me say two things about college professors. Depending on the institution, we are just as likely to be conservative and pro gun rights as not. Our administrations typically are hard left or left leaning. Regarding tenure, which is much maligned by conservatives, it is absolutely necessary to maintaining the quality of education. How? As a tenured professor I am free to fail students that truly have earned a failing grade without fear of job loss. There has been a ton of talk about how teachers are part of the cause of students not learning while ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room (actually gorillas: lack of motivation, lack of aptitude for the subject, poor educational history, single parenthood, etc.). As long as there are regular, adequate measures of teacher competence, tenure is needed to protect the professor who maintains the high standards necessary to educate students for an increasingly complex, technical world. Last thought: What if you were a teacher and 30 to 50% of your students either got less than a C or dropped out of your course every semester. You know that you are putting every ounce of your efforts into preparing and executing the best course possible. Should you be fired?

Thanks for reading.

[Tweed Ring]

Only if you trust the union president. I had a union official roll on one of her bargaining unit members, who was carrying a knife, in violation of the employer’s rules. I understand the possibility of a student and/or a co-worker acting out. You are in the same position as many others who deal with the public and with peers. Some states, I believe Utah is one, allow students and staff to carry weapons on some campuses.

Lots of crime can occur in those parking lots. Perhaps your union could encourage the administration to unseat those campus police?

One of my former state senators proposed a bill which would have required state colleges and universities to hire conservative professors but the proposal died in committee.

All of my professors were politically neutral or leaned left. Most of my friends in college were politically neutral, or leaned right. If you are conservative, and pro-gun, you must be a gem.

[Loubuzz]

Everyone's responses have been very thoughtful and helpful.

I thought I would complete this "story" but posting the exact language of the entry signage - technically the action that goes along with the college policy. The signs state:

No person shall knowingly possess, have under the person's control, convey, or attempt to convey a deadly weapon or ordinance onto BLANK premises.

With all this said, and with what I have to lose should I be caught exercising my right to protect myself, I no longer carry in the car when going to and from work and won't be carrying my Kershaw blade in my briefcase.

Thanks again and I'll keep checking back.

[WestonDon]

Welcome to the forums. Please do keep checking back. The body of knowledge on this forum is quite extensive. I am sure you will be adding your expertise as well.