Gun confiscated. Failure to notify.

[kcclark]

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[tbrew85]

I sent Sgt Lanier an email with several questions regarding the subject of this post, as well as what training did or did not take place after our discussion in Nov 2012 regarding my improper open carry contact. While he didn’t discuss the current subject, I thought Id share his response to the training inquiry.

Tbrew,
Good morning, I received your email and forwarded it to Chief Fruchey for further response. While I do not know the details, my understanding is that Your Friend’s situation involves carrying concealed, whereas yours was open carry. In response to your situation in 2012 and the inquiry on training, I did issue a departmental memorandum regarding the lawfulness of open-carry. Furthermore, that memorandum was made part of roll-call for all officers, and as you can imagine, there was much discussion for quite some time. Lastly, we referenced the Ohio Attorney General’s Office Ohio’s Concealed Carry Laws and License Application manual, which briefly discusses open carry (p. 17). Actually, this topic came up again recently [regarding approaching persons that are openly carrying firearms] when the subject in Hamilton was walking around with a gun and fired on the responding officer.
I hope that provides you with what you are looking for in regards to your situation in 2012. It was a pleasant discussion and I appreciate your sincerity regarding the matter. While I wish it would have never occurred at all, I am glad that we were able to address it and cause everyone to be more conscious concerning open carry. If you need anything further, please feel free to contact me.

[JMO]

All I have to do is to be driving under a suspended license for my firearm to be confiscated??? How is this acceptable by anyone?

[tbrew85]

All I have to do is to be driving under a suspended license for my firearm to be confiscated??? How is this acceptable by anyone?

Well....because it was.....you know.....100% self inflicted.

[tbrew85]

I just heard from the current Chief of police for Fairfield Township. His email, in part:

"We have received an official complaint from Your Friend ref. this incident, and I have assigned the case to Officer McCroskey’s immediate supervisor for investigation. There were some specific questions in your email to Sgt. Lanier that I will be able to answer for you upon the conclusion of the investigation, which I expect to be completed in the next five to seven business days.

I can however, answer some of the questions in your email. We do not have in-car camera or audio recordings in our cruisers. If you desire audio tapes of the traffic stop radio transmissions, those would be available through the Butler County Sheriff’s Office Communication Center; this is the department that dispatches for Fairfield Twp. As far as policies for the handling and disposition of seized weapons, these actions fall under the routine procedure for the logging of all property (including firearms) into our property system. The disposition of such property is fully within the authority and direction of the Butler County Court. We must dispose of such property as directed by the court.

As I am sure you are aware, I was not the chief at the time of your incident involving an open carry issue. Training and updated legal information has been and continues to be provided on second amendment issues to all of our officers to keep them current. As stated above, I will get back to you with additional information upon the conclusion of our internal investigation. Your questions are all completely legitimate and deserve to be answered to the best of our ability."


I find it unconscionable that a modern police department has zero recording in their vehicles.

[TJW815]

While I agree they should have some sort of recording device (as should we all) I understand if budgetary restraints prevent them for that ability. I don't imagine the systems are inexpensive.

How many patrol vehicles does the township have does anyone know?

[deanimator]

While I agree they should have some sort of recording device (as should we all) I understand if budgetary restraints prevent them for that ability. I don't imagine the systems are inexpensive.

How many patrol vehicles does the township have does anyone know?

Well that just further justifies my belief that the LAST people you should expect to protect your legal rights from the police are the police themselves.

As with your physical safety, protect yourself or don't get protected at all.

[JediSkipdogg]

While I agree they should have some sort of recording device (as should we all) I understand if budgetary restraints prevent them for that ability. I don't imagine the systems are inexpensive.

How many patrol vehicles does the township have does anyone know?

Well that just further justifies my belief that the LAST people you should expect to protect your legal rights from the police are the police themselves.

As with your physical safety, protect yourself or don't get protected at all.

There are tons of agencies without cameras and just as many without MDCs in their cruisers. The cost to outfit a patrol car completely is generally in the area of 50% of the purchase price of the car. So figure say $25000 for a Police Interceptor, add another $12,500 to equip it. Oh, you want the new fangled LPR system as well, add another $10,000.

Unfortunately the police market is just full of expensive products and the makers of those products know it and know the PDs will pay for it.

[deanimator]

While I agree they should have some sort of recording device (as should we all) I understand if budgetary restraints prevent them for that ability. I don't imagine the systems are inexpensive.

How many patrol vehicles does the township have does anyone know?

Well that just further justifies my belief that the LAST people you should expect to protect your legal rights from the police are the police themselves.

As with your physical safety, protect yourself or don't get protected at all.[/quote]

There are tons of agencies without cameras and just as many without MDCs in their cruisers. The cost to outfit a patrol car completely is generally in the area of 50% of the purchase price of the car. So figure say $25000 for a Police Interceptor, add another $12,500 to equip it. Oh, you want the new fangled LPR system as well, add another $10,000.

Unfortunately the police market is just full of expensive products and the makers of those products know it and know the PDs will pay for it.[/quote]
My point is that YOU have no control over whether THEY record the encounter.

You DO have control over whether YOU record the encounter.

As I said, if you don't protect your own rights and interests, it's foolish to expect the police to.

[TJW815]

I simply ask because I see auctions on govdeals all the time for cruiser video equipment, I was going to email the township pd a link

[JediSkipdogg]

I simply ask because I see auctions on govdeals all the time for cruiser video equipment, I was going to email the township pd a link

The problem is, most is crap. I guess something is better than nothing, but then when you say "our system wasn't working" it brings up 300 questions. In my 9 years at my job, we've gone through four systems. The first, was the most reliable.....VHS tapes. The second, DVD discs, the problem was, spinning discs in a moving vehicle causes corruption of the entire disc quite often. The third, spinning hard drives, but again, spinning disks. Now, we have a total solid state system in the cruisers and it works. Very few problems, although, it's a computer and sometimes won't boot properly or initiate, but it's rare. I'd never do anything DVD or hard drive related.

[tbrew85]

You DO have control over whether YOU record the encounter.

As I said, if you don't protect your own rights and interests, it's foolish to expect the police to.

I think most of us here know that we should record for ourselves. Id guess it probably doesn't cross most of the general public's mind. It certainly never crossed my friends mine, despite hearing me mention it before. She has never had an issue with a police officer like this before, and is still in shock over the entire episode.

As far as no cameras in Fairfield Townships cruisers...ITs still very surprising to me. This isn't an area struggling for tax revenue.

[Splat!!]

Brandon is a very ignorant aggressive wanna be......I had a run in with him, my daughter went to school with him, He never confiscated my firearm but backup arrived, as he rambling about what he could charge me with..I told him to go pound sand, ticket me or get out of my face..I got a ticket.

[BB62]

I just heard from the current Chief of police for Fairfield Township. His email, in part:

"We have received an official complaint from Your Friend ref. this incident, and I have assigned the case to Officer McCroskey’s immediate supervisor for investigation. There were some specific questions in your email to Sgt. Lanier that I will be able to answer for you upon the conclusion of the investigation, which I expect to be completed in the next five to seven business days...

I'd give it 14 business days (twice as long as the estimate) and touch base with the Chief again as to the status of the complaint.

It's 10 days now.

[tbrew85]

I just heard from the current Chief of police for Fairfield Township. His email, in part:

"We have received an official complaint from Your Friend ref. this incident, and I have assigned the case to Officer McCroskey’s immediate supervisor for investigation. There were some specific questions in your email to Sgt. Lanier that I will be able to answer for you upon the conclusion of the investigation, which I expect to be completed in the next five to seven business days...

I'd give it 14 business days (twice as long as the estimate) and touch base with the Chief again as to the status of the complaint.

It's 10 days now.

I forgot to update, he has replied.

Good afternoon Mr. Tbrew,



As promised, I am getting back to you after the completion of the investigation ref. Your Friend's complaint against Officer McCroskey. After a careful review of the facts, including a comparison of the time frames outlined in the complaint to Butler County Dispatch records, we have determined there was no violation of law, policy or procedure by Officer McCroskey. Sgt. Lanier explained our position on the ancillary issues you raised, and I will not bore with repetition, as his position is very well aligned with mine.



I also want you to know that we appreciate your dialogue with us on these issues; it always improves a situation to discuss it intelligently, and you certainly did that.



Best regards,



Chief Matthew E. Fruchey, CLEE

Fairfield Township Police Dept.


Absent any video or audio of the incident, from either party involved, it is literally he said/she said. Could have been worse I guess.