Midwest Auto Group (MAG)

[remphoto]

I know this has been posted before but all the MAG locations are still posted. One would think with the state of the auto industry that barriers to customer business would be removed. I suppose political correctness outweighs business at MAG. Today I disarmed and went in to look at some MINI Countryman -- knowing full-well that I would again drive to gun-friendly BMW/MINI store in Cincinnati to buy my next MINI and would again write a letter to owner Mark Brentlinger after I have again bought a MINI and again tell him again that he has lost a sale. In fairness the gun policy is not the only reason for not buying there but fits in with the general attitude of the sales staff toward its customers.

[Javelin Man]

Classic MINI dealer in Mentor (?) where my wife takes her MINI is not posted either and a very enjoyable place to visit.

I've seen plenty of car dealers take their no guns signs out of their windows and am surprised the rest haven't done the same in this cut throat economy and business.

[Bombarde32]

Just got back from picking up the wife's Volvo at MAG. The service entrance / department is not posted. Not sure about the showroom!

[MRB1]

While we are sympathetic to your concerns about carrying a concealed weapon into our company, it should be noted that we have been held at gunpoint more than once, inside the buildings and outside the buildings. One incident that occurred, resulted in multiple injuries to the owner of the company by an individual who was intent on killing him and collecting ransom.
So if we loose your mini purchases, we consider it a much less serious matter than the life safety of the 400+ employees who are part of the worlds largest company in one location selling European cars.
I understand your frustration and desire to feel safe, but you should look at the consequences of one or more bad actors who share your desires to tote guns in a world where there is enough daily violence to satisfy even the most demented gun owners. Our properties are and always will be, posted that gun possession are not acceptable in any way. Once you have a gun pointed at your head, trigger cocked, you might have experienced an inkling of the helplessness that comes from trusting that the general public is not only good people shopping for luxury items

[JustaShooter]

While we are sympathetic to your concerns about carrying a concealed weapon into our company, it should be noted that we have been held at gunpoint more than once, inside the buildings and outside the buildings. One incident that occurred, resulted in multiple injuries to the owner of the company by an individual who was intent on killing him and collecting ransom.
So if we loose your mini purchases, we consider it a much less serious matter than the life safety of the 400+ employees who are part of the worlds largest company in one location selling European cars.
I understand your frustration and desire to feel safe, but you should look at the consequences of one or more bad actors who share your desires to tote guns in a world where there is enough daily violence to satisfy even the most demented gun owners. Our properties are and always will be, posted that gun possession are not acceptable in any way. Once you have a gun pointed at your head, trigger cocked, you might have experienced an inkling of the helplessness that comes from trusting that the general public is not only good people shopping for luxury items

Ignoring the original post was over 10 years ago and focusing simply on your reply, I believe your logic is fundamentally flawed. Your posting of "no guns" signage does nothing to deter a person intent on causing harm, *ALL* it does is keep law-abiding citizens from possessing the means to protect themselves (And, I might add, *you*) from a criminal who ignored your signs. I would think that as someone who has been held at gunpoint your reaction would be to welcome those who lawfully carry the means to protect themselves and you.

[qmti]

In reading MRB1 post, this is a prime example of the gun hating companies thinking a NO GUN sign will prevent gun violence on their property. It just entices the bad actors to target the establishment. But he is right on one point, customers can take their money elsewhere,

[Brian D.]

In reading MRB1 post, this is a prime example of the gun hating companies thinking a NO GUN sign will prevent gun violence on their property. It just entices the bad actors to target the establishment. But he is right on one point, customers can take their money elsewhere,

And as you and other long time forum members already know, that's what we'll do.

[M-Quigley]

While we are sympathetic to your concerns about carrying a concealed weapon into our company, it should be noted that we have been held at gunpoint more than once, inside the buildings and outside the buildings. One incident that occurred, resulted in multiple injuries to the owner of the company by an individual who was intent on killing him and collecting ransom.
So if we loose your mini purchases, we consider it a much less serious matter than the life safety of the 400+ employees who are part of the worlds largest company in one location selling European cars.
I understand your frustration and desire to feel safe, but you should look at the consequences of one or more bad actors who share your desires to tote guns in a world where there is enough daily violence to satisfy even the most demented gun owners. Our properties are and always will be, posted that gun possession are not acceptable in any way. Once you have a gun pointed at your head, trigger cocked, you might have experienced an inkling of the helplessness that comes from trusting that the general public is not only good people shopping for luxury items

That makes a lot of sense. After all, a person who has the intent to commit a violent crime will surely be deterred by a sign. (sarcasm)

The reality is, your sign is just a way for you to feel good about yourself, so that you can say you've done something, when in fact you've done nothing truly effective. If you really cared about a person bringing guns in and possibly harming employees you'd have metal detectors and armed guards at the door, but of course that costs money which you don't want to spend. A sign is much cheaper, even though it is in reality useless against the type of people who would use a gun illegally. I feel sorry for your employees. By putting up a sign preventing law abiding legal gun carriers from carrying, you are actually putting your employees and customers in even greater danger than if there was no sign at all.

As for the bolded part, I have been the victim of an attempted armed robbery. The reason I say "attempted" was because I wasn't "helpless". I had a concealed handgun on me and successfully defended myself.

[Brian D.]

While we are sympathetic to your concerns about carrying a concealed weapon into our company, it should be noted that we have been held at gunpoint more than once, inside the buildings and outside the buildings. One incident that occurred, resulted in multiple injuries to the owner of the company by an individual who was intent on killing him and collecting ransom.
So if we loose your mini purchases, we consider it a much less serious matter than the life safety of the 400+ employees who are part of the worlds largest company in one location selling European cars.
I understand your frustration and desire to feel safe, but you should look at the consequences of one or more bad actors who share your desires to tote guns in a world where there is enough daily violence to satisfy even the most demented gun owners. Our properties are and always will be, posted that gun possession are not acceptable in any way. Once you have a gun pointed at your head, trigger cocked, you might have experienced an inkling of the helplessness that comes from trusting that the general public is not only good people shopping for luxury items

That makes a lot of sense. After all, a person who has the intent to commit a violent crime will surely be deterred by a sign. (sarcasm)

The reality is, your sign is just a way for you to feel good about yourself, so that you can say you've done something, when in fact you've done nothing truly effective. If you really cared about a person bringing guns in and possibly harming employees you'd have metal detectors and armed guards at the door, but of course that costs money which you don't want to spend. A sign is much cheaper, even though it is in reality useless against the type of people who would use a gun illegally. I feel sorry for your employees. By putting up a sign preventing law abiding legal gun carriers from carrying, you are actually putting your employees and customers in even greater danger than if there was no sign at all.

As for the bolded part, I have been the victim of an attempted armed robbery. The reason I say "attempted" was because I wasn't "helpless". I had a concealed handgun on me and successfully defended myself.

Quigster, MRB1 joined here five days ago, made that one drive by (heh!) post, and hasn't logged in again since. To me that constitutes the single beating of a years-dead horse, rather than attempting to continue a dialog. That post came on a Sunday, so maybe things were boringly quiet at the car lot. We can wait a lustrum or decade to see if I'm wrong.

[cpg]

Well, at least they took their chance to call us demented, blame us for the acts of criminals, and make assumptions that none of us have ever been a victim of violence.

[M-Quigley]

Well, at least they took their chance to call us demented, blame us for the acts of criminals, and make assumptions that none of us have ever been a victim of violence.

That's assuming the "they" that posted claiming to be Midwest Auto Group was actually from the owner of M.A.G. and not some troll claiming to be M.A.G.

Assuming the poster really was the owner of M.A.G., the owner should have the common courtesy of posting their anti gun anti self defense stance on their website and on their facebook page. That way someone who is a law abiding concealed carrier can be informed before driving to their location and seeing the no guns sign. To not do that is just rude and inconsiderate.