Range Reports

[Voice]

I did have to completely hide my target behind the front blade (I think they sight it to 50 yards at the factory)....

I found the targets from this thread useful, from AR15.com -

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/52984 ... AK_47.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good resource, thanks.

My biggest problem with sighting in at 25 yards is that I can't even see if I hit the paper, much less the target. At about 15 yards I can see the holes. It's time consuming to bring the target in every few shots to see if I managed a tight enough group to make adjustments. The vertical offset on those targets will certainly help, though.

[TSiWRX]

Good resource, thanks.

No problem! Glad to share something of-use.

My biggest problem with sighting in at 25 yards is that I can't even see if I hit the paper, much less the target. At about 15 yards I can see the holes. It's time consuming to bring the target in every few shots to see if I managed a tight enough group to make adjustments. The vertical offset on those targets will certainly help, though.

Same here.

I'm saving up for a decent spotting scope, but until then, like you, I'm taking the walk or bringing the target in.

[Imcrazy]

I picked up a 'used' S&W Bodyguard 380 sans laser at FFF in Middleburgh for $240 plus tax, it still had the packing grease on it when I got it home and showed no signs of any use. Took it out to Erie County Conservation League and ran 100 rounds of blazer brass and a mag of hornady critical defense all without issue. I was able to keep all the rounds on a 8" target and most within 2-3" of the bull in rapid fire. The gun is generally unpleasant to shoot but compared to others in the same category it's pretty pleasant. It does carry very nicely in the pocket and I might try some AIWB carry down the road.

[Glock 'n load]

I picked up a 'used' S&W Bodyguard 380 sans laser at FFF in Middleburgh for $240 plus tax, it still had the packing grease on it when I got it home and showed no signs of any use. Took it out to Erie County Conservation League and ran 100 rounds of blazer brass and a mag of hornady critical defense all without issue. I was able to keep all the rounds on a 8" target and most within 2-3" of the bull in rapid fire. The gun is generally unpleasant to shoot but compared to others in the same category it's pretty pleasant. It does carry very nicely in the pocket and I might try some AIWB carry down the road.

I bought one of the early BG 380s (EAB... serial) new from the LGS. Like some of this genre, I had trouble with the retainer pin. Into the second mag of ammo the pin removed itself while firing (lost at the range). This caused the slide to run forward during firing. I had read several accounts of this issue. The factory replaced the barrel and the pin. I had no further problems with the BG and sold it later. Since I have bought another BG, and it is my favorite 'mouse gun' for carry.

[Bama.45]

I took my new Beretta 92A1 to the range today..It shoots awesome from single action..The double action is horrible..I have a hammer spring on the way to change that though..Over all I like the gun.

[Darkness]

This is actually a report of two range trips: one a couple of weeks ago and the other just a day ago with a new mag. Anyway, let's start.

The TAC MS by Rock Island Armory is a 4.25" commander size 1911 with a full length dust cover and rail. All steel pistol chambered in 10mm it has quite a bit of heft. More so than the Glock 20 I once owned. This definitely helps with recoil.

I had some definite problems shooting left of POA, but I attribute that to unfamiliarity with the weapon. Second session was not as pronounced as the first trip, but was still an issue. I am used to shooting revolvers and my Beretta and Sig, so getting used to the 1911 trigger will take more range time (not a terrible thing.)

The gun is nicely assembled and feels great in the hand. I was worried that the texturing on the grip panels would be overly aggressive, but that turned out not to be the case. They provide a nice grip and did not tear up my hands at all, even shooting Underwood ammo.

Trips combined, I have put about 300 rounds through the pistol. Still short of the 500 rounds the little paper they included indicates for a break in period. I had some issues in this time. There were three failures to feed, one weird stove-pipe type of failure with a live round, one slide lock with the last round in the mage, and two failures to return to battery. The failures to feed were with the original mag, and were nosedives with the last round in the magazine. These required magazine removal to fix. The one stove-pipe type I can't explain. It was also with the factory mag and it ended up catching a live round, nose up, in the slide. Like you see with a classic stove-pipe of an expended round, but this one was still live.

For the second range trip I was using a new Wilson Combat 47NX mag. I had one failure to feed where the round was actually loose on top of the mag feed lips, just sort of hanging out when I pulled the slide back to lock. I had another failure to return to battery which required a push to the rear of the slide. I also had the one slide lock with a round in the mag happen with the Wilson. All of these issues happened with the final round in the mag.

Overall, the pistol was very pleasant to shoot, and when I showed good trigger control was accurate out to the 7 yard mark where I was shooting. Not claiming to be an expert, obviously, but I did manage about a 3 inch group at 7 yards. The fiber optic front sight is a nice touch. I was using some Georgia Arms bulk 10mm, and ran some Underwood 180gr bonded through it. Both types of ammo were nice to shoot and easy to get back on target.

Trying to iron out these problems, as I was hoping the might be mag related, but still having them even with the Wilson. That mag is presenting its own problems, such as needing the Power of Greyskull to get all nine rounds in the mag, and then being unable to lock the mag in the pistol with nine rounds in it. I left the mag loaded for a week or so to let the spring set, but still could not get it into the gun until yesterday when I finally propped it up on a table and put my weight into it. Then it snapped into place. i am going to leave it like that a couple of weeks and check again.

Overall I am very pleased with pistol. Finding holsters to fit it, not so much... It's a weird configuration, but Blade-Tech offered to make one for me after I sent them a picture, so there is some hope.

After a good cleaning, I hope to take it back to the range in a few days and put the other 200 rounds of bulk through it to get it through its break-in period. Hopefully these weird problems will sort themselves out.

[TSiWRX]

...such as needing the Power of Greyskull to get all nine rounds in the mag....

That just made a great range report all that much more fun!

[Brian D.]

Regarding the difficult magazine: Do you have an UpLuLa loading tool ? That will ease the struggle.

[Darkness]

Yep, I have an UpLula. First time loading the mag I had to use the UpLula after the fifth round went in.

I just got a Mec-Gar mag for it yesterday, so looking forward to trying that mag out (any excuse to get to the range.)

Oh, and I contacted Dan about making a holster, and he might be able to mock something up, so there is hope there.

[Brian D.]

MecGar magazines are generally quite good. Another brand to consider--if you haven't already--would be Metalform. They have provided many of Colt's "OEM" 1911 magazines in all calibers.

[Darkness]

I think the "factory" mags that come with the RIA TAC line are made by Metalform.

Tripp Research also gets good recommendations, so there is another avenue.

I am going to end up with an expensive box of magazines the way this is going.

Maybe the pistol likes to run wetter than what I am giving it. Right now I am using Hoppes grease on the rails. I think next time out I'll just run it with a liberal amount of Rem Oil or Break Free CLP and see if that makes any difference.

[Brian D.]

I think the "factory" mags that come with the RIA TAC line are made by Metalform.

Tripp Research also gets good recommendations, so there is another avenue.

I am going to end up with an expensive box of magazines the way this is going.

After sorting all this out you could sell off the magazines which don't run YOUR gun but will likely be fine for others. (Yes, I've done that, specifically with a few 1911 magazines in .38 super. The buyer was a friend so he got to test them out before paying me.)

[Brian D.]

If you have a Glock model 17 or 19, I can give a thumbs up to both of MagPul's recent introduction of magazines for them. (Guess that would be both thumbs up.)

They work as they're supposed to in all aspects, including dropping free when fully stoked. They are easier to take apart and reassemble than the OEM mags. Price of $15-$20 another plus. Only downside I can think of is they only have one witness hole, which tells you whether or not they are completely full.

[TSiWRX]

^ I love them - two more things to add:

(1) As LegoGlock and I found out through an "Oh, Duh! " moment, they don't work with magnetic magazine holders (such as the NeoMag that LegoGlock favors - these Magpul Glock mags are not metal lined.

(2) Can't use some aftermarket base-pads with them.

[M-Quigley]

Hopkins and Allen forehand model 1901 32 S&W 5 shot blue steel revolver. An acquaintance of mine recently inherited a collection of various guns and ammo. One of the older handguns in the collection was a small double action revolver. He initially thought the 1901 referred to the year of manufacture, but that's not the case. This model was made from 1901 to 1910. It appeared to be in VGC , not unfired, but the barrel looked good. It still had most of the bluing, no rust or corrosion. It had some light wear in the usual places, like just under the front of the barrel for example. Although the cylinder spun freely, when the trigger was pulled, it had tight lockup and alignment of the chamber to the barrel prior to the hammer fall. The trigger pull was light on both double and single action, in fact the lightest double action pull I've ever encountered. The matching serial number is stamped on the cylinder also. The grips are hard black rubber, and the sights are very small and thin. We didn't weigh it, but I read it's supposed to be 14 oz. It didn't even feel that heavy to me, but then I'm used to heavier guns. It was definitely a pocket size handgun.

First shots were one round loaded at a time while he was behind 2 layers of kevlar and a headpiece with a full face shield, just in case. When nothing bad happened the accuracy testing started. We test fired it initially from ten feet at a B27 target, not expecting much accuracy. It's very comfortable to shoot, even one handed, no lead splitting from the sides. We then moved out to 7 yards. Group sizes for me at ten feet were about an inch, at 21 feet
about 2 inches. Opening the top break action ejects the spent cases. In my hands accuracy with the fixed sights was pretty much dead on at 10 feet, but the center of the group was 1 to 1.5 inches high at 21 feet. His groups were slightly higher, slightly more to the right, and about twice as wide at 10 feet, and 6 inch high group, about 3 inches wide at 21 ft. He's more of a beginning shooter. It's very light, easily concealable, and no failures to fire. There weren't enough rounds left in the partial box to test it out at a farther distance. At first glance it would appear to be a decent pocket carry gun or BUG if it wasn't so old and chambered for such an enemic cartridge. What we didn't realize at the time was the gun was originally designed for a black powder cartridge. Apparently some testing that I read about on the web said some of them have blown up after 972 rounds were fired through them in a test with later made smokeless powder cartridges. I can't imagine firing 972 rounds of that cartridge anyway unless they reload, considering how hard it is to find nowadays.

We didn't do any penetration or velocity tests, but I've read somewhere the round will penetrate 3 pine boards. For comparison a 230 grain .45 acp round penetrates 6 boards in the same testing. The ft. lbs energy is supposedly only 90, an 85 grain bullet at 680 fps. I read a comment once that someone would be better off picking up a heavy rock and hitting the BG over the head. I personally however don't want to get that close if I don't have to in a life or death situation. I've heard that in the old days most of the people that died from a torso shot with this round mainly did so because of infection. I wouldn't have much faith in the rounds effectiveness unless it's a heart or head shot, but the gun is easily capable of that level of accuracy at the distances tested. I've read that the modern round is capable of penetrating the sternum or cranium. Still, if this same gun were made nowadays a 22lr would be a better chambering, since the ammo is more readily available.

While the owner and I both agree that it would be our last choice for self defense, it still might be more effective than a gunbuster sign. Still, it was interesting, and fun to see and shoot a gun that was made over a hundred years ago, and still works like it did back then. I can only imagine someone carrying it in those days, when most people got around in horses and buggies or steam locomotives, the airplane hadn't been invented yet, Butch Cassidy was still robbing banks, and the president was Teddy Roosevelt.