Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Homer J wrote:So sealed convictions are still safe?

Should be.

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:So my question is about the posted parking lot issue. I assume this makes it a civil issue across the board?

That was the case last I heard. Has anyone heard differently?

Thanks, djthomas and Wertz - it is more of an intellectual curiosity than anything. I have my PA license which will cover me past the next renewal of my Ohio CHL, but I get a lot of questions like that when I'm volunteering at the OFCC table for the gun shows. Your thoughts echo mine, so it is good to know I wasn't off base.

Unfortunately, it looks like TX only reviews other state's requirements once each year, and the report has to be filed by Jan 1 so they won't even have a chance to review the new law until 1/1/2016.

Rhino wrote:

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:So my question is about the posted parking lot issue. I assume this makes it a civil issue across the board?

That was the case last I heard. Has anyone heard differently?

Huh?

This bill didn't do anything for parking lots.

You can have your gun stored in your car in the parking lot of your county JAIL, but not in the parking lot of a state PRISON.

Private parking lots are already civil trespass only.

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:You can have your gun stored in your car in the parking lot of your county JAIL, but not in the parking lot of a state PRISON.

I used to believe this same position, and was corrected in these forums just a few months ago. Don't have the time to look up the cite, but county jails count as well.

BobK wrote:

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:You can have your gun stored in your car in the parking lot of your county JAIL, but not in the parking lot of a state PRISON.

I used to believe this same position, and was corrected in these forums just a few months ago. Don't have the time to look up the cite, but county jails count as well.

Shorted path is this....

2921.36 Illegal conveyance of weapons, drugs or other prohibited items onto grounds of detention facility or institution.
(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

(1) Any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of or ammunition for use in such a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance;

Then to define what a detention facility is....

2921.01 Offenses against justice and public administration general definitions.
(F) "Detention facility" means any public or private place used for the confinement of a person charged with or convicted of any crime in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States or alleged or found to be a delinquent child or unruly child in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States.

In short, this can include some police departments. The Springdale Police Department in S/W Ohio has a 4 cell jail inside their PD. This makes their entire parking lot a no carry as well. This is why if we ever change government buildings there needs to be a further change to PDs as well since some do have full jail cells.

pirateguy191 wrote:Chuck, you made the bigtime.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.s ... rt_m-rpt-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Congrats, Chuck!

JediSkipdogg wrote:In short, this can include some police departments. The Springdale Police Department in S/W Ohio has a 4 cell jail inside their PD. This makes their entire parking lot a no carry as well. This is why if we ever change government buildings there needs to be a further change to PDs as well since some do have full jail cells.

What delineates the police parking lot? Many PDs and sheriff offices/jails share parking lots with other municipal/county offices. Is the entire complex parking lot off limits, or just that adjacent to the jail portion?

Is a police "holding cell" the same as a "detention facility"?

JediSkipdogg wrote: Shorted path is this....

2921.36 Illegal conveyance of weapons, drugs or other prohibited items onto grounds of detention facility or institution.
(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

(1) Any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of or ammunition for use in such a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance;

Yet a Sheriff's Dept/PD is none of these, even if they have cells/jail.

JustJack wrote:

JediSkipdogg wrote: Shorted path is this....

2921.36 Illegal conveyance of weapons, drugs or other prohibited items onto grounds of detention facility or institution.
(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

(1) Any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of or ammunition for use in such a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance;

Yet a Sheriff's Dept/PD is none of these, even if they have cells/jail.

Read ORC 2901.01(F) which defines "detention facility" as Jedi quoted above.

JustJack wrote:

JediSkipdogg wrote: Shorted path is this....

2921.36 Illegal conveyance of weapons, drugs or other prohibited items onto grounds of detention facility or institution.
(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

(1) Any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of or ammunition for use in such a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance;

Yet a Sheriff's Dept/PD is none of these, even if they have cells/jail.

Magical word in there.... OR

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Huh?

This bill didn't do anything for parking lots.

You can have your gun stored in your car in the parking lot of your county JAIL, but not in the parking lot of a state PRISON.

Private parking lots are already civil trespass only.

I think I'm confusing it with something else (probably PGWP too). There was a parking lot discussion with some legislation this year, and obviously I got it mixed up.

schmieg wrote:Read ORC 2901.01(F) which defines "detention facility" as Jedi quoted above.

Correction. It's 2921.01 (F).

(F) "Detention facility" means any public or private place used for the confinement of a person charged with or convicted of any crime in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States or alleged or found to be a delinquent child or unruly child in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States.

OhioPaints wrote:

JediSkipdogg wrote:In short, this can include some police departments. The Springdale Police Department in S/W Ohio has a 4 cell jail inside their PD. This makes their entire parking lot a no carry as well. This is why if we ever change government buildings there needs to be a further change to PDs as well since some do have full jail cells.

What delineates the police parking lot? Many PDs and sheriff offices/jails share parking lots with other municipal/county offices. Is the entire complex parking lot off limits, or just that adjacent to the jail portion?

Is a police "holding cell" the same as a "detention facility"?

That's what I don't know. Some places have actual jails. Springdale Ohio Police Department is one of them as we use it to sentence individuals in mayor's court or those that skip out on warrants after X numbers of time and can't post bail. My department has a temporary holding which is mentioned here and follows these guidelines: Department of Rehabilitation and Correction Temporary Holding Facility Guidelines

Notice the definition of a THF on page two as quoted here...

A local facility which physically detains arrestees for a maximum of six hours for processing and/or awaiting transportation. The THF may be a jail cell, but also may be an area that is designated for temporary holding purposes, e.g., holding area or room. The use of devices such as restraining chairs, cuffing rails or posts for temporary holding is discouraged.

We mention a place that detains arrestees. Isn't that the purpose of a detention facility? Back to the definition of a detention facility we have...

(F) "Detention facility" means any public or private place used for the confinement of a person charged with or convicted of any crime in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States or alleged or found to be a delinquent child or unruly child in this state or another state or under the laws of the United States.

Detain, confine, and a THF says "detains arrestees" whereas a DF says "confinement of a person charged." Pretty much, they are identical.

Now, if you want to disagree with the above, we can but let's look at 2921.36 again...

(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

Go back to the THF Guideline document and look at that big logo on page one and the first line of the document. I would venture if the DRC is putting out guidelines for a THF then a THF is under the control of the DRC. We have strict guidelines and our place is inspected on I believe a bi-annual basis by the DRC. Jails, such as Springdale and Hamilton County, are inspected annually by the DRC.

Could the envelope be pushed? I betcha if one pushes far enough, and I don't really think they have to push to far.

JediSkipdogg wrote:

JustJack wrote:

JediSkipdogg wrote: Shorted path is this....

2921.36 Illegal conveyance of weapons, drugs or other prohibited items onto grounds of detention facility or institution.
(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, onto the grounds of a detention facility or of an institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction any of the following items:

(1) Any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of or ammunition for use in such a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance;

Yet a Sheriff's Dept/PD is none of these, even if they have cells/jail.

Magical word in there.... OR

So what you're saying is that the ORC should actually reads like such:

(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance, as defined in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, or any part of, or ammunition for use in such, a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into any of the following;

(1) The grounds of a detention facility, as defined in section 2921.01(F) of the Revised Code

(2) An institution, office building, or other place that is under the control of the department of mental health and addiction services, the department of developmental disabilities, the department of youth services, or the department of rehabilitation and correction

Maybe if they wrote it in English we could cut out some the the ambiguity and confusion. Wait, what am I thinking...

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:

Rhino wrote:

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:So my question is about the posted parking lot issue. I assume this makes it a civil issue across the board?

That was the case last I heard. Has anyone heard differently?

Huh?

This bill didn't do anything for parking lots.

You can have your gun stored in your car in the parking lot of your county JAIL, but not in the parking lot of a state PRISON.

Private parking lots are already civil trespass only.

Almost, I believe parking lots were civil trespass at state level only, HB234 extends this to 'any political subdivision of the state' so individual cities can't prosecute criminally.

JLE