Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Keltec does recommend specific ammo..

carmen fovozzo wrote:Keltec does recommend specific ammo..

Which IMHO immediately renders it a "novelty gun" and unsuitable for ever being used as a self-defense weapon. That said, I do like the sight picture those bright fioptic sights give off. My eyesight has lessened and I wish I could get a set like that on my carry gun.

glocksmith wrote:

carmen fovozzo wrote:Keltec does recommend specific ammo..

Which IMHO immediately renders it a "novelty gun" and unsuitable for ever being used as a self-defense weapon.

I'm curious about that statement - I can't recall any of my handgun manuals or manufacturers ever recommending specific ammo so I'm not sure how that relegates a firearm to "novelty" status. (Honestly, I agree that the PMR30 fits that description, just not for the reason you mentioned.)

Its never a good sign when the manufacturer recommends specific types and/or brands of ammo....and I won't trust my life or my family's lives to a gun that is ammo-finicky right out of the box. Back when I was a dumb kid in the 80's I bought a Tec-9...and in the manual they clearly stated to use ammo with brass cases possessing a specific thickness to the rim. Now IDK how the consumer was supposed to determine which ammo on the shelf was supposed to be correct for the Tec-9 ...but mine didn't work worth a damn and I must've dented a few hundred primers and wasted a lot of money trying to make that gun work. I consider guns like the PMR 30 (along with the AMT longslides and Desert Eagle series) to be "fun guns" for the shootin range...but not for serious matters if you can avoid it. For whatever reason these magnum semi-autos seem to be malfunction prone. IDK, maybe it has something to do with OAL length of the cartridges? The shorter autopistol cartridges seem to work much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqtxH2mYIKA

My Kimber Solo did recommend specific ammo..it'shoots anything you feed it.. PMR...Fun gun only for me.

carmen fovozzo wrote:My Kimber Solo did recommend specific ammo..it'shoots anything you feed it.. PMR...Fun gun only for me.

Solo is a good example, Carmen. They specified not to use 115 grain ammo, the most common 9mm bullet weight. Two of my friends, who reload and had Kimber Solos, fiddled around with all sorts of 115 grain handloads without success.

Wilson Combat used to list preferred/recommended ammunition.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=393004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess that rules them out as fighting guns?

They've become much less specific as of more recent years - but I guess that just means that it's OK to use more recent production Wilson's as fighting guns.

OK, I'll stop being flippant.

The truth is that I'd rather take any "n of 1" unique weapon that's proven itself to me to be reliable and durable (and the ammo providing the same, plus consistency) over any other weapon/ammo that has whatever supposed combat pedigree, when that weapon has not proven itself as that unique example of one. Weird things happen, period. Remember that Gen4 Glocks did not get off to a sterling start.

As to how are folks supposed to know which ammo to use?

No-one ever does. Every gun is an unique example of one. Sure, they're made to exacting tolerances - and so is good production ammo - but tolerances can and will stack.

This is why every unique gun/ammo combination should be proven before the gun is determined to be suitable for use as a defensive or duty weapon. This is homework that each and every shooter should do for themselves, for they are the only ones who can make the confirmation.

Would I trust my PMR30? Not yet. As a range-toy for me, I just haven't shot it enough to really come to trust it. But so far (~400 rds?), it's done well on many different types of ammo - including ones not on KelTec's list - and this is more than I can say of at least one of my handguns that supposedly has a trusted pedigree as a make/model.

It's a lot of firepower in a very lightweight package, with virtually no recoil to speak of. I think it could be a devastating defensive weapon. But as an "n of 1?" I just don't know, yet.

And that brings it all back to why I carry a revolver. My CC gun will fire just about anything...literally. I'm quoting someone else here: "If you get the cylinder machined to accept moon clips you should be able to shoot 6 different calibers. It should accept .357 Mag, 38 Special, 38 Super (9X23), 9mm Luger (9X19), 9mm Makarov (9X18) and 380 Auto (9X17). Accuracy with the various 9mm's may not be the greatest but it sure makes for options in a situation of limited ammo availability."

^ Nevertheless, a revolver still needs that same care-in-feeding. Though definitely uncommon nowadays, even someone who has been in the community for as short of a period as me has heard/read - and seen - cases of "crimp jump" with the ever-popular unobtainum-framed flyweight hideaway wheel-guns. Page 12 of S&W's current "Modern Revolvers" product manual testifies plainly to this still very real concern (and again as with-above, I don't think that anyone would assert that these guns are anything short of true fight-capable, with many of today's big-name tactical trainers still very much endorsing their use as BUGs).

In the end, we need to remember that it's our duty to make sure that the ammo we choose actually works in the guns we have in our hands.

Not doing so can make for anything from spoiling what would be an otherwise happy range-day (and no, I'm not talking about the dreaded KB, rather, just the more common "the only ammo I brought with me today [and have a case of at home] does not seem to work with my gun!") to making the worst day of one's life just that much, er.......worserer.

glocksmith wrote:And that brings it all back to why I carry a revolver. My CC gun will fire just about anything...literally. I'm quoting someone else here: "If you get the cylinder machined to accept moon clips you should be able to shoot 6 different calibers. It should accept .357 Mag, 38 Special, 38 Super (9X23), 9mm Luger (9X19), 9mm Makarov (9X18) and 380 Auto (9X17). Accuracy with the various 9mm's may not be the greatest but it sure makes for options in a situation of limited ammo availability."

One year at SHOT, Colt displayed some revolvers that had been worked over that way by an aftermarket gunsmith firm. Their concept was called the Medusa. More details than that I don't recall.

This guy actually demonstrates it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJhZkIToDMk