Firearms Sales Letter

[JU-87]

...

Quite frankly it reminds me of this quote by Samuel Adams

“If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

Thank you ScottyPotty!
I'll go with that also.

ETA: I sold a torque wrench , and a breaker bar on Craigslist today. I did NOT make the buyer sign a "bill of sale!"

[Brian D.]

Entirely personal choice.

There are some sellers out there that demand to see an Ohio driver license and/or CHL before making the sale.

I would love to know what class they took to verify the validity of these state-issued documents.

I bought that M&P VTAC from iam1096 yesterday. We swapped looks at each others' Ohio CHL's. It's called making an honest effort to stay legal. Of course I'm no expert on fake ID's, that's not really the point here Dave. Honestly, I won't sell without seeing at least an Ohio driver's license, unless of course I already know the person and where they live. You know that the BATFE asks/coerces people that are in trouble with them to go try to set up prospective buyers and sellers at these shindigs sometimes, right? Besides the practice of using their own agents for the same purpose?

[MyWifeSaidYes]

When selling a gun, I ask the buyer 3 questions:

Are you an Ohio resident?

Are you 18/21 or older?

Are you otherwise allowed to possess a firearm?


Why do I need to do anything else under the law? These are the 3 pieces of information that you need.

Looking at an Ohio driver license doesn't tell you if the person has moved out of state within the last 4 years.

Looking at an Ohio CHL doesn't tell you if the person has developed a criminal record within the last 5 years.

If I ask them a direct question and they lie to me, I did my due diligence.

If you look at data printed on a piece of paper or plastic WITHOUT asking them a question, you did NOT do your due diligence, you made an assumption.

And THAT can come back to bite you.

[Brian D.]

I don't see it that way. Wouldn't feel to me like asking those questions proved a thing, liars lie. Somebody producing their driver's license shows some evidence that the person lives in state. The CHL does that just as well, plus indicates lack of criminal conviction and other disqualifiers. If the ID's are false or out of date, I did my best. If the BATFEebs were pulling a stunt like that, I do have a lawyer, and he can spell 'entrapment'.

[Bama.45]

...

Quite frankly it reminds me of this quote by Samuel Adams

“If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

Thank you ScottyPotty!
I'll go with that also.

ETA: I sold a torque wrench , and a breaker bar on Craigslist today. I did NOT make the buyer sign a "bill of sale!"

That's good.. But a stolen torque wrench and breaker bar can't be prosecuted by the BATFE.

[DontTreadOnMe]

I don't see it that way. Wouldn't feel to me like asking those questions proved a thing, liars lie. Somebody producing their driver's license shows some evidence that the person lives in state.

A few months back I was closing a sale off armslist. The guy agreed to my price no haggling. Said he's local & can meet at my choice of place time. Then I mentioned that I'd ask to see his d/l to confirm residency (which was in the armslist ad) and would show mine, for same. Never heard from him again.

Maybe something happened to him. Maybe it was a setup, or maybe he wasn't actually an Ohio resident. Who can say? Regardless, on the chance it was (b) or (c) I'm glad I took that step.

[JU-87]

...

Thank you ScottyPotty!
I'll go with that also.

ETA: I sold a torque wrench , and a breaker bar on Craigslist today. I did NOT make the buyer sign a "bill of sale!"

That's good.. But a stolen torque wrench and breaker bar can't be prosecuted by the BATFE.

Neither does is stolen handgun! Do YOU insist on a "sales letter" before a gun is stolen? Theft is not the topic of this thread. Face to Face sales are the topic.

My point is this: When I sell TOOLS, I follow State of Ohio laws and NOTHING else. No paranoid "add on's" that will do very little or nothing to solve a "future crime". I haven't had to "prove" I was "guest of honor at a party", or anything else.

PS- I just sold a computer to a women on Craigslist yesterday. She didn't request a "sales letter". Neither did I.

Best regards.

[Bama.45]

No one is trying to stop a FUTURE crime from happening.. I don't want to have a stolen gun.. Thats the point I tried to make.. I don't care what someone does after they get a firearm from me as long as they are legal to have I in the beginning.. Does a bill of sale prove that condition? No.. But it does prove I tried to follow the law and in good faith... But being in possession of a stolen firearm is not good.. And I would want any kind of evidence I could to show I bought said gun in good faith.


If bill of sales are useless, then why do state DMV's require one to title a vehicle?

[ScottyPotty]

Driving privileges vs God given rights. The BMV can do anything it wants, its not a God given right protected under our constitution.

Having a receipt doesn't do you any good if the car is stolen. A friend bought a car and his receipt wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

[Bama.45]

Driving privileges vs God given rights. The BMV can do anything it wants, its not a God give right protected under our constitution.

Having a receipt doesn't do you any good if the car is stolen. A friend bought a car and his receipt wasn't worth the paper it was written on.

The analogy of driving being a privilege doesnt fit here... Getting a bill of sale without a title on a car purchase is idiotic, unless it is a car manufactured before titles were required.. Also it has NOTHING to do with driving a car, but rather owning one.. Isn't ownership a God given right if you buy something?.. Why do you think pawnshops and other businesses get a copy of your driver's license for merchandise that you pawn or sell to them?.. They do it in case the goods you pawn or sell are stolen...Do what you want.. Before I buy a gun from anyone I require a bill of sale... Because like I said I'm not taking a chance of buying something only to find out later that it was stolen from someone else and now I have no proof that I didn't steal it.

[ScottyPotty]

Justify it anyway you want. But when this stuff is required by law it is about "common sense" gun control and keeping guns out of criminal hands. Sounds like common sense, so lets require record keeping and universal background checks, after all it is about protecting people. The truth is universal background checks are unenforceable. UNTIL you require complete registration, and we all know the only reason for registration is for confiscation. The sad truth is many 2A supports people don't see anything wrong with these kinds of requirements.

But I probably just need to put on my tinfoil hat, after all this is America and it cant happen here

[Bama.45]

It has nothing to do with gun control.. And you're grasping at straws to try and make it about gun control.. It has to do with covering your rear end in case something you buy is stolen.. I honestly don't see why folks get up in arms if someone wants a receipt for something they've purchased.

[ScottyPotty]

You think a piece of paper will keep you out of trouble? It proves nothing, if the LEO think you did something that piece of paper will not deter them. Its a feel good measure and just "common sense"

[MyWifeSaidYes]

I do hope the feel-good piece of paper a private buyer may require of the seller contains accurate information.

I mean, if your gun comes back as stolen and your receipt has no valid information in it, that would be...worrisome.

Of course, nobody in their right mind would accept a receipt with data on it that they did not validate by checking that person's driver license or CHL, right.



Oh, wait...what was that I said in an earlier post?

[Brian D.]

Oh, wait...what was that I said in an earlier post?

I can't recall..don't you pay any attention to your posts, either?