Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Two guys who work animal husbandry in our facility were robbed of their bicycles in the last year alone. Yes, they were physically on their bikes at the time. Both were strong-arm robberies, gun-to-face, "get off your bike" deals, at the road-side from passing vehicles.

Here in the city, strong-arm bike robberies are - while not frequent - definitely far from uncommon.

I still think very uncommon compared to other rates of criminal assaults in OHIO-- NY or SF, maybe that is an argument-- but still much easier for me as criminal to pull a locked bike off a pole or out of a garage than to risk physical confrontation. I think the tight fitting shorts and the expensive looking bikes are an inducement to robbery-- if indeed real. If anything, open carry is better on the bike if these reports and worries are indeed realistic. Many more people are injured in bike accidents than actually criminally assaulted on a bike. If i hit you with a car, or a bat, jut to take your bike, how does your conceal weapon prevent that?

Ok, so what does a gun concealed in your fanny pack do in these situations. are you willing to draw and shoot someone taking your car priced bike? Can (do you) you stop your bike, jump off, draw your gun in the face of a threat....or do you ride away as fast as possible? Can you draw fast enough with a gun in your face, or getting knocked on your butt off the bike? how about afterwards while the robber is riding away with your $10K bike-- are you prepared to shoot him in the back? Gun-to-face scenarios are rarely winnable with your own gun in the real world (not TV)...with gun to face, you are unlikely to make a move towards your own gun and win that moment--- it is better to live and fight another day-- give the robber your bike, wallet and shorts.

If anything, that gun is just a security blanket in making you feel safer in location where you should not be riding in the first place.

TSiWRX wrote:Two guys who work animal husbandry in our facility were robbed of their bicycles in the last year alone. Yes, they were physically on their bikes at the time. Both were strong-arm robberies, gun-to-face, "get off your bike" deals, at the road-side from passing vehicles.

Here in the city, strong-arm bike robberies are - while not frequent - definitely far from uncommon.

CCIman wrote:I still think very uncommon compared to other rates of criminal assaults in OHIO-- NY or SF, maybe that is an argument-- but still much easier for me as criminal to pull a locked bike off a pole or out of a garage than to risk physical confrontation. I think the tight fitting shorts and the expensive looking bikes are an inducement to robbery-- if indeed real. If anything, open carry is better on the bike if these reports and worries are indeed realistic. Many more people are injured in bike accidents than actually criminally assaulted on a bike. If i hit you with a car, or a bat, jut to take your bike, how does your conceal weapon prevent that?

While I loathe to bring this up, two-legged predators aren't the only ones that attack bicyclists.

CCIman wrote:Ok, so what does a gun concealed in your fanny pack do in these situations. are you willing to draw and shoot someone taking your car priced bike? Can (do you) you stop your bike, jump off, draw your gun in the face of a threat....or do you ride away as fast as possible? Can you draw fast enough with a gun in your face, or getting knocked on your butt off the bike? how about afterwards while the robber is riding away with your $10K bike-- are you prepared to shoot him in the back? Gun-to-face scenarios are rarely winnable with your own gun in the real world (not TV)...with gun to face, you are unlikely to make a move towards your own gun and win that moment--- it is better to live and fight another day-- give the robber your bike, wallet and shorts.

If anything, that gun is just a security blanket in making you feel safer in location where you should not be riding in the first place.

This brings up another question.. How do castle doctrine and duty to retreat affect bicyclists? Is it the same as a car/truck/motorcycle?

CCIman wrote:I still think very uncommon compared to other rates of criminal assaults in OHIO-- NY or SF, maybe that is an argument-- but still much easier for me as criminal to pull a locked bike off a pole or out of a garage than to risk physical confrontation.

I don't disagree - but again, we carry not because of the common/likely, rather the possible.

I think the tight fitting shorts and the expensive looking bikes are an inducement to robbery-- if indeed real.

These were average everyday working folk. No fancy athletic clothing, no fancy bikes, either. This was just their best/most reliable/fastest method of transporting themselves to work during fair-weather months here in NE-Ohio.

If anything, the two I mentioned (as you well pointed out) violated the "where" law of the Iron Triangle. But when you only make so much (little) per pay-check, your choice of where to live narrows down significantly.

Ok, so what does a gun concealed in your fanny pack do in these situations. are you willing to draw and shoot someone taking your car priced bike? Can (do you) you stop your bike, jump off, draw your gun in the face of a threat....or do you ride away as fast as possible? Can you draw fast enough with a gun in your face, or getting knocked on your butt off the bike? how about afterwards while the robber is riding away with your $10K bike-- are you prepared to shoot him in the back? Gun-to-face scenarios are rarely winnable with your own gun in the real world (not TV)...with gun to face, you are unlikely to make a move towards your own gun and win that moment--- it is better to live and fight another day-- give the robber your bike, wallet and shorts.

If anything, that gun is just a security blanket in making you feel safer in location where you should not be riding in the first place.

Why does this need to be a bicycle-only scenario? What's so different about any of the above, when we replace the word "bike" with "car?"

How fast can one ride away - on a bicycle - from a threat in a motorized vehicle?

How effectively can one draw after being knocked to the ground by a punch - even if one were simply walking/standing until the strike?

I don't think that any of this very thoughtful conversation should be limited to those who use bicycles either as a means of transportation or for leisure/exercise.

511 shirt, revolver in desantis pocket holster, both inside large hidden shirt pocket, never did this on a bicycle, but did it on a motorcycle a number of times, can be deployed as if one is drawing from a shoulder holster.

CCIman wrote:Okay then... why even worry about CONCEALED carry?

Hi CCIman,

Not sure if you are suggesting open carry? My OP is specifically about finding an on body, CONCEALED carry solution to use when cycling. I'm sure the open vs. concealed debate occurs on these forums somewhere. Open carry is not an option I am considering.

CCIman wrote:I still think very uncommon compared to other rates of criminal assaults in OHIO-- NY or SF, maybe that is an argument-- but still much easier for me as criminal to pull a locked bike off a pole or out of a garage than to risk physical confrontation. I think the tight fitting shorts and the expensive looking bikes are an inducement to robbery-- if indeed real. If anything, open carry is better on the bike if these reports and worries are indeed realistic. Many more people are injured in bike accidents than actually criminally assaulted on a bike. If i hit you with a car, or a bat, jut to take your bike, how does your conceal weapon prevent that?

Ok, so what does a gun concealed in your fanny pack do in these situations. are you willing to draw and shoot someone taking your car priced bike? Can (do you) you stop your bike, jump off, draw your gun in the face of a threat....or do you ride away as fast as possible? Can you draw fast enough with a gun in your face, or getting knocked on your butt off the bike? how about afterwards while the robber is riding away with your $10K bike-- are you prepared to shoot him in the back? Gun-to-face scenarios are rarely winnable with your own gun in the real world (not TV)...with gun to face, you are unlikely to make a move towards your own gun and win that moment--- it is better to live and fight another day-- give the robber your bike, wallet and shorts.

If anything, that gun is just a security blanket in making you feel safer in location where you should not be riding in the first place.

TSiWRX wrote:Two guys who work animal husbandry in our facility were robbed of their bicycles in the last year alone. Yes, they were physically on their bikes at the time. Both were strong-arm robberies, gun-to-face, "get off your bike" deals, at the road-side from passing vehicles.

Here in the city, strong-arm bike robberies are - while not frequent - definitely far from uncommon.

Okay...on seeing this post...yes, you are suggesting OPEN carry. As my early post notes...that's not an option for me. Happy to have the open vs. concealed debate on another thread.

As for your comment...

"If anything, that gun is just a security blanket in making you feel safer in location where you should not be riding in the first place."...

This sounds a lot like an argument against carrying or otherwise preparing to defend oneself. If I knew where/when I should/shouldn't ride...why wouldn't I also know where/when I will/will not need my gun at any other time? Then, very simply, I can just avoid those places. If only it were that easy. That's also a lot cheaper than my current approach

Check out the Trump Card Concealment holsters by Pisolwear. It can be worn higher or lower, but holds the pistol pointed down still. Stretches with movement. Kind of like a belly band style but I think better. I have one of their other models and like it a lot.

There are alot of gimmicks in holster wear, and what works for one person, does not for another even when standing around, walking, driving or sitting at a non-alcohol serving restaurant, let alone running, jumping, bending. It's just a matter of trial and error and compromise.

It really depends on the type of "cycling" and bicycle, but for most upright bicycles where one is tilted forward, I don't envision anything being comfortable or practical in the pelvic/femoral area - from 9-3 oclock positions, so that only leaves the 4-8 oclock positions at the back/waist or the chest/thorax or the back.

I just cannot imagine how one can be tactically effective while riding a bike and conceal carry. You literally have to draw while keeping your balance and not running off track, and you cannot point the gun while riding without falling off. You have to have the physical coordination down..One has to stop and get that metal contraption out from between the legs before even considering putting finger on trigger. From a practical aspect, it faster to run to safety.

Again I bring up falling off a bike- which I have had experience with, and the last thing I would EVER want to do is fall on top of that firearm attached to my back or thorax and have that device somewhere between me and the ground, or have that firearm knocked into the weeds. The last time I fell, I was traveling sideways about 15 mph with a helmet- I landed sideways on my shoulder/side/elbow- landing on my side on top of my own arm, I bruised 3 ribs and smacked my head on the pavement sideways which even through the helmet hurt. After which I lay on the ground for at least 3 minutes from pain before I could get up. I am a black belt in Judo, I know how to fall, and I had enough fractional time to see this was coming when my front wheel hit that pavement imperfection- so I just tucked and rolled as much I could with bike shoes and bike between my legs, did not put my arm out. I hurt for a month afterwards, and the black and blue on my side looked like I was hit with a barn door. My Droid phone was in a cordura holster with a riveted metal clip on my waist, the clip was ripped off and the phone smashed and thrown into the weeds.

I cannot imagine some BG dude on the side just pushing me hard sideways as I rode by, let alone hitting me with an instrument, and me having any where-with-all to try to defend my bike with a gun. If you are going to try to carry while biking- try practicing falling off the bike first, because that is really what a BG will do first is knock you off. On those times that I've "carried", I've used a hip pouch or a backpack with the realization there is NO WAY to get to it fast. So my strategy is to run to safety first. These type containers are also the first thing the BG will ask for if a gun gets pointed in the face, so keep that in mind.

CCIman wrote: I cannot imagine some BG dude on the side just pushing me hard sideways as I rode by, let alone hitting me with an instrument, and me having any where-with-all to try to defend my bike with a gun.

So you've taken the same kind of beating in training and were successful at defending yourself while running, walking, and in your motorized vehicle?

It's not defending the bike - it's defending the person riding the bike.

I still don't see why riding a bike so different from walking.

If someone tackled me while I'm walking along obliviously, how is that different than if I'm riding along just as absent-mindedly and having someone shove me off my bike?

As I mentioned previously, I don't think that any of this very thoughtful conversation should be limited to those who use bicycles either as a means of transportation or for leisure/exercise.

I've fallen off a bike a few times in my life - I've got the dental and medical records to prove that.

In Ohio, bicycles are legally vehicles and one has no duty to retreat from their vehicle ( not 'motor' vehicle according to 2901.05 D4)

I almost always carry on the bicycle, the exception being CPZ workplaces and no safe/discreet way to stow the firearm at work. And after a few years of trial and error have decided pocket carry ( right front pocket in a pocket holster) is the best way to go for me. I see nothing but disadvantages in drawing from a bellyband, iwb/owb, or shoulder holster in a hostile attack situation where reaching for anything but a pocket would be asking to get shot/stabbed/clobbered instantly by an assailant.

Thank you for all the thoughtful comments, position debated, and equipment suggestions. I'm finding this much like my experience with EDC holsters. That being, I had to try a few before I settled on 2-3 that I really liked and felt comfortable deploying in "real life".

I received the 5.11 Select carry pouch today. My first impressions...no way I can use this for concealed carry for running or cycling. I am 99.9% certain I'm returning the item but I'll sleep on it and give it another look tomorrow. I can post a full review with pics if that is of interest to anyone here. I have both a M&P Shield and a Springfield XDS 9mm w/3.8" barrel, both in 9mm. I tried both out in the pouch and observed the following issues that (for me) make it a non-viable solution:

• the main carry pouch has four elastic bands spread out horizontally with space between them; the interior pair are larger and the exterior pair are smaller; the intent is you would use one or both elastic bands on one side or the other depending on your draw hand by placing the barrel into the bands
• my Shield barrel would not fit in the smaller band
• when placed in the large band, the rear of the Shield (from backstrap to backplate) is buried into the opposite side of the main pouch making the initial draw/grip difficult; trigger is also fully exposed
• the large band does not provide much retention on its own; I'm fairly certain the pistol would fall out just walking if that were the only retention employed...ie - if the pouch were open/not zipped shut
• it is possible to place the pistol into the "wing" of the main pouch without using the elastic; however, this means the rear of the pistol is now "floating" in the middle of the main pouch; in this arrangement, the pistol has nothing preventing it from sliding side to side short of the tension of the waist strap compressing the pouch (that is, not much tension even when cinched way down)
• the waist strap is your typical fanny pack waist strap; I'm between a 34"-36" waist presently and I had several inches of extra slack in the strap that would need some additional solution to prevent from flapping around; not a huge factor at the end of the day, but something that would bother me
• the waist strap will not likely retain it's tension once cinched down...not with moderate to vigorous physical activity putting pressure to expand...i'd be afraid the pouch would be constantly sliding down if I wore it anywhere but with the pouch at high noon; for cycling, high noon is not an option so this point alone almost singlehandedly eliminates this option for me
• for S&Gs, I tried my full size Springfield; the barrel has the same issues as my Shield and the elastic; the height of the pouch made the Springfield a very tight fit

There's more I can say but...you get the gist here. Overall, I'd say the quality of manufacture of the pouch is good, no weak seams or issues in construction, etc. However, the design is lacking for me. This pouch would work for me if all I need was a way to carry for light activity/walking. But that is likely the only scenario. Since my EDC options already solve for that, I don't need this pouch. What would be great is if this pouch worked in concert with my AIWB kydex holster. That is, I could mount my AIWB holster securely into this pouch and remove it as needed. All it would take is an adjustable tension horizontal "belt" strap on the interior of the pouch. For that matter, give me a "faux" pouch I can just place over my EDC belt and holster with the same concept of quick zipper pouch access and i'd be set. Alas, I'm going to go back to the list and look for attempt #2.

^ Thanks for the detailed analysis! I very much appreciate thoughtful and detailed gear-reviews.

FWIW, yup, it took me a while to come fully to-terms with my EDC holster choice and setup, too.

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Atilla wrote:And after a few years of trial and error have decided pocket carry ( right front pocket in a pocket holster) is the best way to go for me. I see nothing but disadvantages in drawing from a bellyband, iwb/owb, or shoulder holster in a hostile attack situation where reaching for anything but a pocket would be asking to get shot/stabbed/clobbered instantly by an assailant.

Is this just for when you're riding your bike, or is this something you've adopted for EDC?

I have the TDI fanny pack, it seems to have be much better design then what you described for 5.11. It has 2 straps and the slide/ barrel goes off to the left or right of the main compartment. I could carry a full sized 1911 in there if I really wanted to.

http://secure.ohioccw.org/store/p/64-TD ... -Pack.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I ride frequently, typically on the towpath from Massillon or Canal Fulton or the Sippo Trail from Massillon to Dalton I use the 5.11 select carry pistol pouch. I carry one of the following: glock 27, HK p2000sk or Springfield XDs. I have no problem with any of them. I also carry a Benchmade mini griptilian in one of the side pockets. My permit, drivers license and debit card/cash slide into one of the elastic straps. Everywhere I ride now I use this. The towpath and Sippo trail both have plenty of areas that are pretty secluded.