Back up gun?????

[Klingon00]

Most of the derringers have nothing on a modern pocket semi auto as far as I'm concerned. Compare weight, size and capacity and the P3AT wins hands down.

Some other thoughts:
* Can you draw and shoot (making sure to disengage the safety and cock the hammer) as quickly as you can with the P3AT? Better practice.
* Can you get both shots off with the derringer as quickly as you can with the P3AT? Not likely without lots of practice.
* Can you hit with both shots as well as shot to shot with the P3AT? Again, practice will help here but two barrels will have a slightly different point of aim.

[Bama.45]

Never cared for the derringers.

Nothing rotates, huh?

Read about a number of safety issues with them. Real life stories where people got hurt with them by accident.

If I needed something so tiny that I was looking at a derringer I'd get one of those NAA .22WMR single-action revolvers instead. Safer, 5-shots and a caliber that is under-appreciated for SD. If I ever buy a Kel-Tec PMR-30 I'll get the NAA as my BUG for the sake of ammo commonality.

I've often thought those NAA .22WMR single-action revolvers, would be awesome pocket back up pistols for the back up lol..Or shooting snakes etc.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...

Need to figure out how I want to carry my S&W 642 as a BUG - ankle rig, small of the back, weak side.... all of them have pro's and con's.

Oh, PLEASE choose ankle rig !!

It will give Chuck and I something to talk about at the next gun show.

[Werz]

Waiting on this to complete the line: CMR-30

I like it. That would be nice for a "get home bag." However, according to the specs, it could be problematic under R.C. 2923.11(F).

[JustaShooter]

Waiting on this to complete the line: CMR-30

I like it. That would be nice for a "get home bag." However, according to the specs, it could be problematic under R.C. 2923.11(F).

Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended.

[BobK]

Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended.

The issue is the overall length is less than 26" with the stock in the shortened position.

[Morne]

Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended.

The issue is the overall length is less than 26" with the stock in the shortened position.

Is there case law about that here in Ohio?

With the Feds, I'm pretty sure they only care what the OAL is with the stock extended.

[JustaShooter]

Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended.

The issue is the overall length is less than 26" with the stock in the shortened position.

Federal guideline are to measure the overall length with stock fully extended. Is Ohio different?

[Werz]

Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended.

The issue is the overall length is less than 26" with the stock in the shortened position.

Is there case law about that here in Ohio?

With the Feds, I'm pretty sure they only care what the OAL is with the stock extended.

Do you know of any ATF rulings to that effect? I always thought the issue was whether the firearm was fully functional with the stock collapsed to a total length less than 26 inches. For instance, the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 folds to 16 inches, but you can't fire it that way.

[JustaShooter]

JustaShooter Wrote: "Werz, which spec is it that is a concern? Barrel length is over 16", and overall length is over 26" with stock extended."
The issue is the overall length is less than 26" with the stock in the shortened position.

Is there case law about that here in Ohio?

With the Feds, I'm pretty sure they only care what the OAL is with the stock extended.

Do you know of any ATF rulings to that effect? I always thought the issue was whether the firearm was fully functional with the stock collapsed to a total length less than 26 inches. For instance, the Kel-Tec SUB 2000 folds to 16 inches, but you can't fire it that way.

The only ATF publication I can find that has specific language about measuring overall length with the stock extended is https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/ ... pter-2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, page 9 (PDF page 5) where it says:

This model of the Game Getter, as manufactured, is not subject to the provisions of the NFA because it has barrels that are 18 inches in length and the overall length of the firearm, with stock extended, is more than 26 inches.

I have also seen the text of an ATF letter regarding an inquiry from January 30 2008 which says in part:

As background, 27 CFR Sec. 479.11 (Meaning of Terms) states, in part:

The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle (hence SBS or SBR) is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

Based on this description of overall length and its correct measurement, ATF has taken the position that firearms having folding or collapsible stocks are properly measured for overall length with the stock fully extended.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Hmm. 2923.11(F)? This is a potential candidate for a legislative fix.

Per Federal law, a rifle can be MANUFACTURED shorter than 26" OAL as long as it has a 16" barrel.

18 USC 921 Definitions

(a)...
(7) The term ‘‘rifle’’ means a weapon designed
or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to
be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned
and made or remade to use the energy of
an explosive to fire only a single projectile
through a rifled bore for each single pull of the
trigger.

(8) The term ‘‘short-barreled rifle’’ means a
rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen
inches in length and any weapon made from
a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or
otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than twenty-six inches.