ccw class question

[Yellowfin]

Just took my class on the 22nd at commence fire. It was approaching the 14 hour mark. The amount I learned in that time couldn't of been crammed in any less time.

[Jake]

The Basic CHL class just covers the minimum IMO.
Students should use these classes as stepping stones in regards to training / education.

[Sevens]

The class I took in '08 was a MILL. As it turned out, it was exactly what I wanted, but it was 180 degrees from what many of the folks in that class needed. We did the full 12 hours, the range portion was... interesting. It was like the Geico insurance of CHL "training."

Those guys are not in business anymore. I'm not sure why, could be that they lost their hosting place or what, I don't know. Still, to long-time gun folks who have been owning and shooting handguns for many years, it's exactly what I'd recommend-- all of it in one fell swoop for cheap dough, get in & get out and take responsibility for learning all the nuances of the law.

For that, OFCC Forums has been absolutely invaluable, to the Nth degree. It's about one third the reason that I support OFCC.

[Bianchi?]

It was like the Geico insurance of CHL "training."

Can switching to Geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance?

Does bad instruction result in disaster?

[ohiozx3]

well i decided to just sign up with a regular class. im going to the phoenix training center at atwells in painesville on feb 11thand 12th. i cant wait to finally get my class taken and be able to carry.

[JediSkipdogg]

Does bad instruction result in disaster?

It can. There is gun safety, and then there's gun safety. I think instructors can teach bad habits or not keep an eye on students enough. There's a thread on here of a woman in a class where a student had a jam, cleared it himself, and fired it into the ground 12 inches in front of the woman. Full story here: http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58459" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In that case, the instructor wasn't paying enough attention that a student had a jam and take care of it himself. If the woman was shot in foot or somewhere worse, no matter how many waivers were signed, she would have had a good case to sue the instructor. It could then make news based that it happened and then it gives us all a bad name.

There's also a touchy subject with regards to teaching the law. Teaching the law is not required. However, if one decides to take the step and teach it, they need to teach it fully and properly. Otherwise, you give bad info out to students (there's tons of posts on here on that alone) or you could get one in a jam with the law and them falling back saying my instructor said it was OK, which is not a legal defense however, as an instructor, they just cost the person thousands in legal fees.

So yes, bad instruction can result in disaster, disaster that could result in death.

[pirateguy191]

Jedi, Bianchi had a couple very good instructors.

[JediSkipdogg]

Jedi, Bianchi had a couple very good instructors.

Let's see the evaluations


Haha, just messin with ya (assuming you mean yourself)

[Bianchi?]

Jedi, Bianchi had a couple very good instructors.

Excellent instructors.

[Gaspode]

So... Do we get the name of this "instructor" or what? I've known four people who got their CHL because Ive gotten mine, and I'd love to know who this dude was just so I can make sure the people I know and care about aren't going to him...

[Bianchi?]

So... Do we get the name of this "instructor" or what? I've known four people who got their CHL because Ive gotten mine, and I'd love to know who this dude was just so I can make sure the people I know and care about aren't going to him...

I took the class with TGlassburner http://ohioccwforums.org/memberlist.php ... ile&u=7040" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and PirateGuy came out on range day with his class.

[Gaspode]

So... Do we get the name of this "instructor" or what? I've known four people who got their CHL because Ive gotten mine, and I'd love to know who this dude was just so I can make sure the people I know and care about aren't going to him...

I took the class with TGlassburner http://ohioccwforums.org/memberlist.php ... ile&u=7040" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and PirateGuy came out on range day with his class.

No not you.

[djmac1964]

So... Do we get the name of this "instructor" or what? I've known four people who got their CHL because Ive gotten mine, and I'd love to know who this dude was just so I can make sure the people I know and care about aren't going to him...

I took the class with TGlassburner http://ohioccwforums.org/memberlist.php ... ile&u=7040" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and PirateGuy came out on range day with his class.

I think he was referring to the OP. And it would be nice to know the subject of the original post so that people could steer clear of him in the future!

[charben]

I am about to make a phone call right now to see what his side of the story is...

I'll report back...

[charben]

OK. I just got off the phone with the instructor in question.

Now, I understand that I was one of the people calling for his head earlier in this thread. But, I've made the decision to not "out" him at this time. I don't know (I cannot prove) what he was actually doing in terms of class length, homework, etc. but after talking to him, it sounds like it was nothing dramatic (meaning, he wasn't doing 8 hours and passing it off as 12--I would have outed him on that if he admitted to it).

We had a good conversation and I tried to explain why we, as OFCC, are concerned (and making these kinds of phone calls) about what instructors are doing. What a local prosecutor says is OK does not necessarily mean a whole lot. Remember, a prosecutor only gets involved after there has been an incident. Our concern is also about what Sheriff's will think. Recall not so long ago that the Lucas County Sheriff was calling instructors and requesting their curriculum? That is a real risk for an instructor who is not doing a "whole" class.

Now, this particular instructor did tell me that he was aware of an instructor who is doing his "classroom" instruction via video and then only meets with the student to do the range time. If anyone knows who that instructor is, I'd like to know.

And no, the instructor in question is not a member of these forums. He has a particular distaste for internet forums in general and tried to say that people on forums don't know what they are talking about. I invited him to read ours if he'd like a taste of a different kind of forum. I explained to him how many times someone has posted something clearly wrong only to have 5 or more forum members correct them complete with ORC citations! I also explained that we are heavily moderated against personal attacks and other such things with typically bring down the level of internet forums. Will he join in the discussion? I have no clue.