Dayton Police

[impcmonk]

Working with Columbus Police quite a bit, I can tell you that they can and sometimes do pull you over for suspicion. Do I agree with it, no. But that's life in the city.

[Rob-Black99RT]

Working with Columbus Police quite a bit, I can tell you that they can and sometimes do pull you over for suspicion. Do I agree with it, no. But that's life in the city.

But that doesn't make it legal/right. Police seem to do things quite often that aren't legal (search w/o warrant, unlawfully detain, etc.), but when law-abiding citizens raise a stink about it we're the one who're looked upon badly (even though the police were the ones acting illegally). The Sheep have basically swallowed the "big brother knows best, even when he's hosing you" lie. Thankfully, though, there are still quite a few folks who haven't.

[mijborg]

A police officer has a pretty wide discretion in what he can do, even if he plays by the rules.

It can be hard to tell if they are going play by the rules. (insert reality here)

I had two choices, play nice or resist.

Even the most passive resistance can get you tazed or a bogus arrest.
The police have the home court advantage.

I could have fought and probably won in court after high cost (monetary and otherwise) defending against a solicitation arrest. That's a stink that's hard to wash off.

Yes, they were very heavy handed. Yes, their technique really stunk.
What they did was legal.

If their goal was to scare me away from cruising for prostitutes, they did well.

The part that was important to me was that I left after ten minutes unhurt, unarrested, and with all my possesions.

I like to think that was winning.

Sometimes, you have to choose the battles you need to win.

I wasn't up for the cost of this one. Sorry to disappoint.

[NavyChief]

I wasn't up for the cost of this one. Sorry to disappoint.

I find no fault. I already shared my thoughts.

[Jim-in-Toledo]

"Papers Please!"

Police Officers in the USA are NOT the Gestapo in Nazi Germany.

(Or so I thought anyway.)

[Buckshot]

I have a real problem with a few things there... First, how can an out-of-towner (or anybody for that matter) know an area is "bad"... I'm sure if I was driving through downtown Dayton slowly trying to find a street because I was lost I would fit your criteria to be pulled over. At that point, if there's no other infraction, it's unlawful detainment and I'm sure as heck filing suit once things are over. It's not my job to know all the bad areas of town and it's only the officer's job to stop folks who have committed a crime/infraction, and perform reasonable things on them to to write the ticket/arrest them if it's needed. A blown-out license plate bulb is NOT a reason to be put in the back of a cruiser, no matter where you're driving, IMO.

Why should I have to bend over backwards to make some egomaniac cop feel good about himself and try to "make his job as comfortable as possible" when he's detaining me with no lawful reason? Sorry, but I don't wear wool... it's uncomfortable and doesn't fit a patriot's frame anyway.

Rob,

I basically agree with your post,until you got to this point: "Sorry, but I don't wear wool... it's uncomfortable and doesn't fit a patriot's frame anyway"

Wool has fit manay a patriot from the Rev War through Korea. Matter of fact the replacemen of wool with cotton and cotton/polyester blends pretty much reflects our country going from winning team to a so-so bunch of tie lovers.

Buckshot

[Buckshot]

A police officer has a pretty wide discretion in what he can do, even if he plays by the rules.

It can be hard to tell if they are going play by the rules. (insert reality here)

I had two choices, play nice or resist.

Even the most passive resistance can get you tazed or a bogus arrest.
The police have the home court advantage.

I could have fought and probably won in court after high cost (monetary and otherwise) defending against a solicitation arrest. That's a stink that's hard to wash off.

Yes, they were very heavy handed. Yes, their technique really stunk.
What they did was legal.

If their goal was to scare me away from cruising for prostitutes, they did well.

The part that was important to me was that I left after ten minutes unhurt, unarrested, and with all my possesions.

I like to think that was winning.

Sometimes, you have to choose the battles you need to win.

I wasn't up for the cost of this one. Sorry to disappoint.

mijborg,

You personally came out with a tie, at best, and they (those cops) got over on you big time.

What is worse, you have reenforced in their little minds that the sheeple (civilians to them, even though they are not in the military) deserve this kind of treatment.

With just a little more work you could have had the same result that night and then contacted their supervisors the next day and instead reenforced the point that the public (their employeers) DOES NOT deserve this treatment and will not put up with it.

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Thanks a lot.

Buckshot

[dan_sayers]

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Thanks a lot.

Do you mind if I ask where you're coming from here? I don't feel at all dumped on. I feel that we are brethren in a common cause and they we have a responsibility each of us to inform the others of what's going on out there so that we're all as educated both in the knowledge as well as the collective strategy so that we all might face "the next time" that much more prepared.

[NavyChief]

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Thanks a lot.

Buckshot

Uncalled for.

[GWC]

Driving anywhere on a public roadway, whether you are "out of place" or in a "bad neighborhood" is not probable cause for a traffic stop.

Having a burnt out light clearly is grounds for a stop, but only to cite you for the burnt out light. They can look in your widows, but that is about it unless you give your consent.

Putting you in the cruiser is way over the top. Its still smart to be polite and cooperative. I probably would not consent to a search, because I don't have to. But then again I might depending on the circumstances.

[BEAR!]

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Funny... I don't feel dumped on.

While I don't like what the police did, the above statement was a little harsh.

[Buckshot]

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Thanks a lot.

Do you mind if I ask where you're coming from here? I don't feel at all dumped on. I feel that we are brethren in a common cause and they we have a responsibility each of us to inform the others of what's going on out there so that we're all as educated both in the knowledge as well as the collective strategy so that we all might face "the next time" that much more prepared.

Dan,

The comment was not directed at you.

WE are dumped upon becaue the guy in Dayton did NOT take time to get car numbers or badge numbers and complain about his treatment to higher authority there!

Even if NO DIRECT PUNISHMENT results to the cops invloved for that incident, the complailnt WILL filter down and it tends to teach the cops that they SHOULD NOT DO THIS {inappropriate language} TO THEIR EMPLOYEERS!

You were trying to make the same attempt with the Toledo, or wherever, cops, trying to teach them that they must actually have a view of a stopsign before they right "rolling a stop sign" tickets.

It is ALL or our responsabilities to keep the cops on their toes and their attitudes and field procedures properly tuned to prevent routine incursion on liberty.

Any person that fails to participate in this "tuning" fails us all in that it lets the unwanted procedures get a little more ingrained before it is corrected and puts a little more load on all the rest of us.

Buckshot

[Buckshot]

So, you dumped on ALL of use becaue you would not gather a little information and put through a letter or a phone call the next day!

Funny... I don't feel dumped on.

While I don't like what the police did, the above statement was a little harsh.

Bear,

You should feel dumped on.

The statement is NOT harsh when you think about it.

What happens if YOU are the next guy this pair of cops pulls over.

You are going to have to take just a little more {inappropriate language}, or fight a little more {inappropriate language}, because "the last guy took it with no problem, so it must be OK procedure, we didn't {inappropriate language} him off enough to complain!"

Think about it. He did not register his dislike for what the police did to him in ANY manner! So they are good to go to do it again.

Buckshot

[Mark]

mijborg, where were you in Dayton?

[Moose02]

OK, this has been discussed before, and I've given it quite a lot of thought. Ideally, I'd like to say that I would not authorize a consent search and take a firm stand on my constitutional rights. That's what I'd really like to see myself doing.

Realistically, I don't know. I'm fortunate in that I've never been placed in that situation. It's very easy to sit here and talk about what a principled stand I'd take, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, when it's two-in-the-am and I just wanna get home, or it's 0630 and I'm tryin' to get to work... 'Cause let's face it - at the very least that "principled stand" is gonna cost me (probably) considerable time.

It's a cryin' shame, and I hate to admit it, but I have to say the chances of me just "rollin' over" are about 50-50.

I'm of somewhat the same mind. While I'd like to be principaled in my approach I also want to be practical. I do think that after this event it would be worth a trip to local PD to sit down with the supervisor(s) and discuss the event. Sure, take the ticekt w/o complaint for the license plate light - law is what it is. But to be treated as you were was over the top.

I thought profiling was illegal anyways. If we're going to profile, lets be open about it and admit that we're doing it. You're darn right I look at people of Middle East anncestory very closely when I'm in public and particularly in an airport. I am profiling. No different than when I'm in the ghetto I'm looking over my shoulder at suspicious blacks. No different than when I'm in the boondocks somewhere and I'm checking out white trash who are checking me out. You can't help but to go through areas that aren't "your area", so lets call it what it is - we all profile, we all look at race or whatever caught our eye because we're observant of our surroundings. If we weren't, we'd likely be victims. They weren't out of line for the stop due to the license plate light, but if I found myself in compliance with the law getting pulled over in a bad neighborhood at night - I'd be pretty upset. Particularly if I'm hauled out of my vehicle for having a CCW and being armed.