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Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.
Bersa45 wrote:Restraint when needed and action when required.
I like that; concise. Part of the reason my first condition red left me all shook up is because I felt I let myself down. Second time, it was easier to get over because I saw I did what I had to when I had to. I'll have to try and remember that saying. Yours?
@airdog: No flame taken. I did want to point out however that I had plain sighted BEFORE she said that. Hence my feeling that her actions were the epitome of stupidity. And although I didn't mention it, my pathway was clear. I didn't speed off as if to flee, but rather for dramatic effect in an attempt to make her think she genuinely hurt my feelings. Which she kind of did, but only because I'm not a big fan of damned if you do damned if you don't. I guess that's the bitter aftertaste of humble pie, eh? But yeah, that road is pretty dead anyways, and I did make sure my path was clear. It was a fine point just the same.
@ Dan, yes that saying is mine,but feel free to use it anytime A long time ago i had a temper that was touched off if the wind changed directions, but over the years i've become much more patient with people and learned a valuable lesson on how to maintain control. I use it often now.
What did I do? I left. And I didn't just leave, I floored it in reverse and once in the street, I floored it in drive.
Good job Dan. No reason to enter a conflict, when there is a way out.
Again...good job.
Thanks. See? I'm not looking for a reason to use my guns. The times I've been in when they did come into play I didn't all feel good about despite the perp begging for it.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
I just thought of something. Why now get a MP3 player that can record at a touch of a button. say something at 512meg which should be more than enough and cost efficient and buy a mic that attach to the collar.
This way you can start a recording when you get out of your car or what not so that way you have proof of what was said. If anything were to happen.
We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
OhioPaints wrote:<<<Why not do the tuck/untuck inside your vehicle? That's what I do.>>>
Technically, aren't you illegal if you are inside the vehicle without the firearm being "in plain sight"? Or do I misunderstand?
Technically, yes.
"...while being operated..."
Whatever that means. Remember we are dealing with law, not logic. Words don't always mean what they do in the real world.
People have been convicted of drunk driving even though they were sleeping it off in the back seat because they had the keys to the car.
Here they are, doing the right thing, and they are convicted for "operating" their vehicle while intoxicated.
So until a court decides, we don't know what "operating a vehicle" means in the context of concealed carry anymore than we know what "plain sight" means.
"The police are not here to create disorder. They are here to preserve disorder".
Mayor Richard Daley, 1968
I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.
So until a court decides, we don't know what "operating a vehicle" means in the context of concealed carry anymore than we know what "plain sight" means.
Personally its about not having to stand in front of a judge... I bet that if you have your keys, are in your car, and are drunk you will be charged with OUI, not that does not mean it will fly in court, however, its that "in court" part I am wanting to avoid.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau
Learn to fight and practice what you learn.
Although the Attorney General's handbook only says "operating" a motor vehicle, I have been advised in another thread that the actual law requires that the handgun be in plain sight whether if you are transporting OR HAVE the firearm in a motor vehicle. See below.
Ken
Ohio Revised Code 2923.16 (E) and (E)1 wrote:
No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following: (1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or it is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked;
Personally (IANAL), I do all the tuck/untuck from inside....
Unless an LEO is watching and has already determined that I have a CHL and am carrying, who's to know?
From the other perspective, unless you're in Toledo or Columbus, as a rent-a-cop (IOW, from the other side of the coin), I wouldn't want to be the Officer who brought somebody into court for not uncovering before getting into a vehicle....
'Course the criminal-friendly types don't understand that....
Regards,
Stu.
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)
I agree with you about being sensible. But I also think it is important that we all thoroughly understand the law so as to best protect ourselves and/or know how to apply it in slightly different situations. It seems that the ommissions Attorney General booklet could get someone into trouble since many understand the law to apply to "operating" a motor vehicle. Even my CCW class taught it that way and an OSP trooper said that his interpetation was "key in the ignition, motor running, foot on gas peddle".
jburtonpdx wrote:however, its that "in court" part I am wanting to avoid.
In court is the only place the private citizen has a chance to stand up to wannabe tyrannists.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
OhioPaints wrote:I agree with you about being sensible. But I also think it is important that we all thoroughly understand the law so as to best protect ourselves and/or know how to apply it in slightly different situations.
Ken:
Absolutely.... The problem is that so much is either undefined or badly defined (or just plain goofy) that it gets difficult.
For example, it appears that CHL holders have lost in "plain sight" cases where if the gun had been contraband, it would have been considered in plain sight....
It seems that the ommissions [in the] Attorney Generals booklet could get someone into trouble since many understand the law to apply to "operating" a motor vehicle. Even my CCW class taught it that way and an OSP trooper said that his interpetation was "key in the ignition, motor running, foot on gas peddle".
Seems to me that the criminal-friendly folks in Columbus who dreamed up the plain sight requirement may not have understood the case law that defines "operating", and didn't intend the whacky interpretation I put on it earlier in this thread. It's also possible that case law may redefine it for us a your Trooper explained, too, but for now it's yet another grey area.
IMHO the OWI conviction that inspired the "sleeping in the back seat is 'operating'" decision was based on Political Correctness (anti-alcohol bias) rather than common sense. Criminal-friendly Courts may not be a lot of help for use. We're in limbo right now....
Regards,
Stu.
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)
A long time ago i had a temper that was touched off if the wind changed directions, but over the years i've become much more patient with people and learned a valuable lesson on how to maintain control. I use it often now.
