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Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.
So I wake up in Detroit (hungover ) with 20 minutes to get to work on time... in Toledo. Needless to say I was late. Around the half way point I pass a cop. I don't know what city, but he wasn't a state trooper.
Anyway, I fly past him and he pulls out behind me. He's got me dead to rights and we both know it. So I slow down and start pulling over to the right lane before he even turns his lights on.
I tell him I have an Ohio CHL and where my gun is. I keep my lockbox wedged between the center arm rest and my seat belt latch. He reaches in, takes it and asks for the key and the usual paperwork. When he asked me if I knew why he stopped me I said "Because I was going really fast." No point in making excuses right? I also mentioned that I was late for work in Toledo. He clocked me at 89 mph.
He goes back to his cruiser and opens my lockbox a little to see what's in it, locks it back up and gets in his car. After he gets done calling it in or whatever they do in there, he comes back and hands me my stuff and says "I'm not gonna keep you any longer than I already have. Just try to slow down." Whaaaa? I thought for sure I was going to get a ticket!
I don't know if he was feeling magnanimous or if Michigan cops are just used to people driving like maniacs. Or maybe he was pro-ccw and considered me one of the good guys?
I don't know, but there's nothing that says you have to hand him your lockbox OR the key. Apparently you got out of a ticket, which probably wouldn't have happened had you shown any resistance. Even though you wouldn't have resisted because you had something to hide but rather because he was abusing his power. I hate those situations.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Colt45 wrote:
I don't know if he was feeling magnanimous or if Michigan cops are just used to people driving like maniacs. Or maybe he was pro-ccw and considered me one of the good guys?
Possibly a bit of both. The few times I've been in Michigan, I was doing my usual 10 over, and being passed by everything on the road including school busses.
Wouldn't that be part of him doing his job, just going a little further than other leo's go for their own safety?
That could be what the officer intended. But exactly how much safer does doing that make him? He was TOLD there was a gun. Ok, so assume that was a lie and he just had to make sure. ????
I'm sure it's that they are use to people driving like maniacs. Most everytime I see a MI plate on the highway in Ohio they are flying. I've travelled in MI a few times and they do drive fast.
Wouldn't that be part of him doing his job, just going a little further than other leo's go for their own safety?
Safety? Unless the driver is chucking the box out the window, it's locked. Its contents (short of being a bomb on a timer) are of no harm to him. However, the moment he asks for the key and unlocks it, he is conducting an illegal search without probable cause. Nothing about going fast indicates that a locked gun safe in the vehicle of somebody licensed to carry is of any threat to society or the officer on the scene.
mattswabb wrote:I'm sure it's that they are use to people driving like maniacs. Most everytime I see a MI plate on the highway in Ohio they are flying. I've travelled in MI a few times and they do drive fast.
But they know what they're doing. That's what I like about MI drivers: They don't screw around. In Ohio, you have one timid person and they hold up traffic in multiple directions at once. In MI, they see the holes and they take them. On a busy multilane, it looks like a beautiful ballet watching them all get along as if all parts of one well-oiled machine.
"Moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue." - Ann Coulter
"Liberalism is part of a religious disorder that demands a belief that life is controllable." - Ann Coulter
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Wouldn't that be part of him doing his job, just going a little further than other leo's go for their own safety?
That could be what the officer intended. But exactly how much safer does doing that make him? He was TOLD there was a gun. Ok, so assume that was a lie and he just had to make sure. ????
I am going to be in trouble if one of them ever asks me that, as mine is cabled to the seat frame with a choker noose, and the only way to release it is to go into the box and release THAT end!
I've seen several posts now where the LEO wanted to see inside a locked box. Ohio law says they are allowed to take posession of the gun for the duration of a stop. I would think handing them the box would be sufficient. I'm not sure about letting them open it though. Seems like an unreasonable search.
I guess if you had the gun in a locked glovebox, you would be required to open that for the officer if he (or she) wanted to take posession of it. So I don't suppose it is really any different.
Just remember not to keep anything else in the box that you wouldn't want an officer to see. And no, I'm not suggesting anyone here would have anything illegal. I personally just don't like officers snooping.
I know one individual who got himself in deep deep doo-doo by providing a key to a lockbox that was behind the seat of his pickup. His lawyer reamed him for that one up and down, he was charged with improperly CHL because his loaded firearm was locked in the box, behind the seat, not in plain sight. His lawyer told him la Polica would probably not have been able to get a warrent to open the box, but because he so nicely provided a key the evidence inside could be used against him.
Never ever ever never consent to a search of your property or person, I would suggest POLITELY declining...but decline nonetheless. They can go ahead and search, but anything they find can be excluded if they were not justified to search.
willbird wrote:I know one individual who got himself in deep deep doo-doo by providing a key to a lockbox that was behind the seat of his pickup. His lawyer reamed him for that one up and down, he was charged with improperly CHL because his loaded firearm was locked in the box, behind the seat, not in plain sight. His lawyer told him la Polica would probably not have been able to get a warrent to open the box, but because he so nicely provided a key the evidence inside could be used against him.
Never ever ever never consent to a search of your property or person, I would suggest POLITELY declining...but decline nonetheless. They can go ahead and search, but anything they find can be excluded if they were not justified to search.
Bill
First, I agree to not allow a LEO to search without a warrant. If they ask, they don't have probable cause....cause if they have probable cause, they won't ask
However (and I'm sure there may be more to the story), I don't see where the lawyer you mentioned above thinks that the person hung themselves. I think they would have been hung either way, as long as the officer was a bit savvy.
Officer: "I don't see your lock box in plain sight - where is it and can I have it and the key?"
CHL: (politely refuses the illegal search)
Officer: Okay, then I'd like to take possession of your handgun for the remainder of our stop here today. (He CAN take possession of your handgun during the stop - CHL nailed).
There are three types of people in the world; the sheep, the wolves and the sheepdogs.
The sheepdogs don't go out hunting for the wolves - they simply protect their flock when the wolves come calling.
willbird wrote:
Never ever ever never consent to a search of your property or person, I would suggest POLITELY declining...but decline nonetheless. They can go ahead and search, but anything they find can be excluded if they were not justified to search.
Bill
This was the advice given to me by one of my LEO friends while we were talking about whether my locking center console would count as either a glove box or gun case. She said that no LEO has the ability to tell you to open a locked box inside your vehicle as it would be considered an illegal search (unless you opened it for them). They would have to get a warrent to search a locked place inside your vehicle. Now she also did say that if the officer did get "annoyed" by you not opening the box, you could have brought on all of the other legal things that the officer could do like give you the ticket that you deserved in the first place...
I guess I would have a choice...refuse and realize that I WOULD probably get the ticket I deserved or comply (give up some of my rights) and possibily get out the the ticket I deserved. Or maybe I should just slow down to avoid getting pulled over in the first place....this being said after I just drove over 1,000 miles this weekend most of which were 'close' to the posted speed limits...
) with 20 minutes to get to work on time... in Toledo. Needless to say I was late. Around the half way point I pass a cop. I don't know what city, but he wasn't a state trooper.
