HB 106 panic alarms and AI gun detection software at schools

[M-Quigley]

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/136/hb106

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/api ... 00_IN/pdf/

Here is just an example news video of one of the many companies currently selling this service, and they don't all use the same AI algorithm.

What is OFCC's position on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rftUshlQAt4

[Brian D.]

That's House Bill 106, NOT 109, Quigster! Bad enough to download the CORRECT file without being sent down the wrong rabbit hole first.

Okay, I'm only a little mad. And honestly, I don't believe our leadership here is going to weigh in here with much vigor. (Prove me wrong, OFCC "suits", please!)

[JustaShooter]

I hate to say this, but since OFCC is essentially defunct, OFCC does not have a position on the bill.

Heck, I think I'm the only person left with an official title that posts here, and I'm only a Coordinator so I don't set policy, etc. I just do my best to help folks and answer questions - and provide a bit of moderation here & there.

[Brian D.]

I hate to say this, but since OFCC is essentially defunct, OFCC does not have a position on the bill.

Heck, I think I'm the only person left with an official title that posts here, and I'm only a Coordinator so I don't set policy, etc. I just do my best to help folks and answer questions - and provide a bit of moderation here & there.

Well, tell all ten of us what YOU think of the bill then, if you feel like going through it. I was going to read it yesterday but got sidetracked. LOOK, A SQUIRREL! I will try to stumble through it today.

[M-Quigley]

That's House Bill 106, NOT 109, Quigster! Bad enough to download the CORRECT file without being sent down the wrong rabbit hole first.

Okay, I'm only a little mad. And honestly, I don't believe our leadership here is going to weigh in here with much vigor. (Prove me wrong, OFCC "suits", please!)

This is my second attempt at this reply, hopefully I don't get kicked off again, because when I do it doesn't save anything I wrote. I guess from now on I need to copy everything before I hit submit just in case. Anyway, sorry about the error but in my defense I did have the bill # correct the 1st two times that I tried and failed to post the topic, then had to look up some of the links that I posted in the OP. Anyway, it doesn't have to be OFCC leadership per se, if anyone has an opinion on it I'd be interested in reading it. I have my own starting opinion but it's not set in stone and it's open to change if there is something I missed about this. (and there probably is) I got the info about the legislation from GOA but the only thing they said about it was oppose it, without saying why. (That's what they do, say support or oppose )

I only quickly read the proposed bill but I didn't see anything specifically anti gun in it, although there are probably other reasons why it might not be a good idea for schools to spend money on, and IMO other things schools should be doing instead, not just in detecting weapons but actually doing something more proactive if they find one or spot someone trying to bring one in.

One of the sample videos the company that provides the services shows in the news link is some juvenile walking down a hallway with a rifle, and how the location of the active shooter can be relayed to responding LE, as if that is an example of a success story. IMHO that is a failure, almost as bad a failure that I've heard in the news recently (almost once every 2 weeks lately) where some school found a gun in a child's locker at noon time, and they tout it as a success story because the kid wasn't able to use it in the school. It's not a success story, it's just not as bad a failure as a mass shooting. Or a story of a child shooting another person inside the school and the SRO is some kind of hero because he quickly went to that location and stopped the shooter before the number of dead and injured got to double digits. Of course what was missing from most of the news coverage about that shooting was the shooter had a single stack handgun and no extra mag. The shooting was over before the SRO arrived.

Detection and notification is great, but it only detects open carry. Detection and notification is only one part, and not as important as prevention, but some school districts don't want to realistically do that. It's not just the money either, as I've heard from anti gunners about how it might offend the sensibilities of the kiddies if you actually stopped weapons from entering in the first place.

[Brian D.]

I read the bill. My first takeaway, cynical as it may be, is that some legislators are trying to get public funds spent on a particular vendor's product/service. Unless there are multiple companies offering this.

So far I agree with you about its lack of helpful potential, Quigster. Trained/armed school staff strikes me as a more useful idea, and that program has been established and available for some time now.

[JustaShooter]

I'll try to take a look at it when I can get a chance, probably not till later this week with how busy I am at the moment.

[M-Quigley]

I read the bill. My first takeaway, cynical as it may be, is that some legislators are trying to get public funds spent on a particular vendor's product/service. Unless there are multiple companies offering this.

So far I agree with you about its lack of helpful potential, Quigster. Trained/armed school staff strikes me as a more useful idea, and that program has been established and available for some time now.

Regarding the bolded, when I tried to find links with information about it, I found several different companies offering video monitoring services using AI technology to initially spot the open carrier, and then alerting someone monitoring the video who then alerts the school and or local LE. The link I provided was just a news story about one company. IDK if the competing companies all use the same AI algorithm or not. I also don't know anything about which company is better or less expensive, etc. Many businesses and schools already have off site video monitoring, the AI component just assists the human monitors by alerting a human with ID'ing someone with a openly carried gun. Having been a video monitor at a store I can understand how mind numbingly boring the job can be most of the time.

[Klingon00]

Right now Ai cameras are mostly simply able to detect open carry as already pointed out but if you've ever been to the Columbus Zoo, you may have seen the optical density sensors they've employed at their entrances.

It's capable of detecting the difference between a cell phone and a firearm, but it still has some false positives, such as a pocket umbrella (detect metal cylinder) etc.

It combines camera footage with the metal density sensors and some Ai to determine what might be a weapon and flags it for further review.

Based on the speed at which technology becomes cheaper, improves and miniaturizes, I think we can probably expect this technology to become nearly ubiquitous and appear nearly as your typical security camera looks today save for some difficult to spot strips along a doorway.

Just something to be aware of in the near future.

[FormerNavy]

I also tend to think in the future the technology will get good enough to detect people carrying concealed firearms also, using AI to detect minute changes in how a person walks or acts when carrying a firearm... something that wouldn't normally hit the naked eye, but with the proper training and programming AI will pick it up. That's where I think we are headed down the road.

[schmieg]

I also tend to think in the future the technology will get good enough to detect people carrying concealed firearms also, using AI to detect minute changes in how a person walks or acts when carrying a firearm... something that wouldn't normally hit the naked eye, but with the proper training and programming AI will pick it up. That's where I think we are headed down the road.

Maybe for the newer carriers, but I think most of us get so used to it that we sometimes forget we have it on us. I feel strange when I don't.

[Brian D.]

I also tend to think in the future the technology will get good enough to detect people carrying concealed firearms also, using AI to detect minute changes in how a person walks or acts when carrying a firearm... something that wouldn't normally hit the naked eye, but with the proper training and programming AI will pick it up. That's where I think we are headed down the road.

Maybe for the newer carriers, but I think most of us get so used to it that we sometimes forget we have it on us. I feel strange when I don't.

I once came across some NYPD training materials that instructed their officers how to spot people who were carrying concealed. I felt like the tips were good, but far from comprehensive. Pretty sure that experienced toters with solid gear, and clothing that fit into the neighborhood* being traversed, could fool even the most successful spotters.

* There's a big difference between the "urban camouflage" you'd choose for say, Brooklyn versus Wall Street/Manhattan.