How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

This forum is for discussion of general issues regarding Concealed Carry in your everyday life. This forum is not intended to be political or for discussing legislation.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
MacDaddyDC
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:03 am
Location: Whitehouse, Ohio

How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by MacDaddyDC »

Now that it’s legal to possess, transport, grow and ingest recreational marijuana in Ohio, how does that affect ccw and carrying both?
To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.
Alexis de Tocqueville
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5806
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by JustaShooter »

Since it is still a Federal crime, possession of both - or even, possession of a firearm by a person who is a user of marijuana even if the two aren't possessed at the same time - is a crime.

Presumably, most Ohio LEOs are *not* going to worry about enforcing Federal law since they are not deputized to do so but there *are* those Ohio LEOs that are so embowered.

It's a risk. How big of a risk, and whether or not someone is willing to accept that risk is up to individual choice.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
pk47
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:36 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by pk47 »

JustaShooter wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:45 pm Presumably, most Ohio LEOs are *not* going to worry about enforcing Federal law since they are not deputized to do so but there *are* those Ohio LEOs that are so embowered.
Interesting distinction - what type of Ohio LEOs are empowered to enforce federal law?
User avatar
jeep45238
Posts: 5926
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 am
Location: SW Ohio
Contact:

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by jeep45238 »

Fun thing about issue 2 - those CHL holders who don't partake, aren't affected.

Until it's federal decriminalized and taken off the paperwork, you need to ask yourself which you value more, and choose that (in my opinion) - risk versus reward is real.
Last edited by jeep45238 on Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://shootingfordollars.org Where Firearms and Finances meet.

You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5806
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by JustaShooter »

pk47 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:09 pm Interesting distinction - what type of Ohio LEOs are empowered to enforce federal law?
Any local LEO can be Federally deputized, but I couldn't point to any specifically, I just know they exist.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5806
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by JustaShooter »

jeep45238 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:04 pm Fun thing about issue 2 - those CHL holders who don't partake, aren't affected.
Exactly.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
M-Quigley
Posts: 4796
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by M-Quigley »

JustaShooter wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:05 pm
jeep45238 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:04 pm Fun thing about issue 2 - those CHL holders who don't partake, aren't affected.
Exactly.
I don't partake, but what if I'm someday invited into Wille Nelson's tour bus and get a contact high? :lol:

On a more serious note, I'm not a lawyer but a lawyer claimed on a podcast of the Buckeye firearms association that if you were a user, you could technically smoke a joint, then vow to never use it again, and then go out and legally buy a gun, because at that point you're not a "user" of pot so technically you're not lying on the 4473 form. :roll: Under the unlicensed carry law, if you can legally own a handgun you can (for the most part) legally carry it concealed, as long as you're not drunk or high when you're carrying it.

viewtopic.php?t=96742

The possible problem with his statement is if after you buy the gun you start using again, the possession of the gun you bought is now illegal. So if someone was truly serious with quitting and not possessing any pot prior to purchasing or possessing a gun, then I suppose his advice might be technically correct. If it's not and someone gets charged then I guess they could pay the guy mucho $$$$ to be defended by him. :roll:
There's an old saying, sometimes the process is the punishment.

Many gun stores in my area have a sign that say if you smell like marijuana smoke they will deny you service, but the problem with that is not everyone smokes it, there are edibles. One gun shop owner expressed to someone recently he didn't personally care about the law one way or the other, he just needs to protect his license. So if the person doesn't smell or appear to be high the ATF can't go back on the gun store about it.

You can be a daily user of alcohol and that's okay for gun ownership but being a occasional pot user is technically a federal crime, even if the state says it's legal. :roll: It might not be fair but until the law is changed or until the courts settle it one way or the other, that's the way it is. There is currently a federal court case on this very subject in another state and the judge ruled against the government but it's only the first step in possibly a long time legal process that might go all the way up to the Supreme court unless DC changes the law before then.
User avatar
Klingon00
Posts: 3825
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:47 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by Klingon00 »

Form 4473 Section 11 has the below language, IANAL but the wording is vague on purpose. What constitutes use? What constitutes addiction? Also of note, I think many otherwise legal prescription drugs could fall under this if you take them outside of the prescribed use.
e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473
User avatar
FormerNavy
Posts: 2343
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:19 pm
Location: Southwest Ohio

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by FormerNavy »

Klingon00 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:14 pm Form 4473 Section 11 has the below language, IANAL but the wording is vague on purpose. What constitutes use? What constitutes addiction? Also of note, I think many otherwise legal prescription drugs could fall under this if you take them outside of the prescribed use.
e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473
The way I read that, if you use marijuana you can't buy a gun as you would have to answer yes on this question. While not "unlawful" in Ohio anymore, the form specifically points out that it's still unlawful under Federal law. So I believe when you read the paragraph in its entirety, being that it is "unlawful" to use under federal law then yes... you would be an "unlawful user" under the first sentence. You're right, addicted to is very ambiguous.
WhyNot
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 1224
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:23 am
Location: NW Ohio

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by WhyNot »

I WILL STICK WITH COFFEE

Which is only mildly controversial, big hats meetings on weather alert/global warming/climate change/name changes per current issue a.k.a. moving goal posts... stuff
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 19039
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: How does the passage of Issue 2 affect ccw holders?

Post by carmen fovozzo »

WhyNot.Nespresso for me.
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
Post Reply