Range Reports

This is where you can talk about all equipment issues; firearms, ammunition, magazines, care & repair, holsters, gun cases, etc.

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TSiWRX
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Re: Range Reports

Post by TSiWRX »

^ To be more specific, the cadence cards at the base of the OPOTA targets: https://shop.actiontarget.com/content/o ... target.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: STI Spartan III

Post by NavyChief »

TSiWRX wrote:...overthinking the sight package...
Could be. Appleseed calls that "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good."
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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jeep45238
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Re: Range Reports

Post by jeep45238 »

Size reference against a P226. The pistols are lined up against the rearward most portion of the frame ‘bump’. While it doesn’t look like much of a difference in thickness, it’s actually pretty dramatic in the hands. It fits in 226 holsters surprisingly well (at least JMC kydex), but I’d still like to get a dedicated holster made for it.

While there doesn’t seem to be a large difference between the 239 and 226 on paper, the 239 is stupendously easy to conceal with next to no effort, where some conscious thought needs to go into setting up the 226 for success.

Took it to the range yesterday and was pleasantly shocked to confirm the ‘Little gun shoots like a big gun’ description that’s been given to me before. Downside is model specific fat trigger and the cost of magazines. I’d highly recommend it.

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walnut red
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SCCY CPX2 9MM

Post by walnut red »

This is the pistol I mentioned purchasing in the 48 hours thread. Regarding fit and finish my one area of concern is the barrel. The grooves have what I would describe as chatter marks from the rifling machine. Does not seem to affect function but they sure collect crud. The cleaning instructions recommend using light grease on the rails and a few other spots. I didn't read the manual and used Triflow very lightly. In reading posts on the SCCY forum one common complaint is the pistols starting to not fully chamber rounds after a couple boxes of ammo have been fired. I did not experience this during my shooting and I'm wondering it the Triflow vs grease may have helped. After the range session this was one of the dirtiest pistols I've ever cleaned, any I regularly shoot black powder revolvers. Maybe the grease gums up with powder residue easier than Triflow. At this point I'm sticking with Triflow.

I've been working 3rd shift this week so when the mail carrier delivered the holster and mag loader I'd ordered for my new CPX-2 I decided to head to the range for a function test. I shot a box of Remington, Herters, Federal, Winchester and Armscor ammo, all 115 gn FMJ. Temp was 6 deg. F, overcast sky, light breeze in my face. Targets were 6" paper plates at 12 yards. I had no malfunctions of any sort today with the pistol or ammo. Point of impact was slightly different with each brand but everything stayed somewhere within the 6" paper plate, which is my criteria for a carry pistol/ammo combination. Federal was the worst for me, I had to work to keep 5" groups. They were centered, just open. Herters was also disappointing, a centered 4" group but 3" low. The Winchester function fine and had acceptable groupings, but I'll not buy it again. I didn't read the box and it is steel cased. Actually I was a little surprised it functioned so well given the steel case. The Remington and Armscor ammo both shot pretty much to point of aim and gave 3"-3.5" groups consistently. Before the trip home I reloaded both magazines with the Armscor given the occasional hard primer reports I've heard about the Remington but I'd have no hesitation using the Remington ammo for practice.

The mag loader is a RangeTray brand and made loading the mags much easier and the mags did seem to become easier to load with use. Before I went to the range I disassembled and cleaned the pistol placing a drop of Triflow on each rail and two drops on the barrel. The holster is A Barsony Leather brand and I'm not so sure about it. workmanship is OK but th epistol rides a little high and I may have to modify it slightly around the trigger guard. I wore the pistol all afternoon and found it very comfortable to carry. I realize 12 yards and 6" targets is not much of a range test but I consider it sufficient for my purposes. I've very happy to have no malfunctions with 5 brands of cheap range ammo and the compactness makes the pistol easy to carry. I'll pick up some hollow points for my next trip and let you know the results.
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rimfireOH
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Webley Mark VI

Post by rimfireOH »

Webley Mark VI

Acquired used, with an unknown number of rounds fired prior to my acquiring it.
I finally had the opportunity this week to hit the range with my newest acquisition, an unshaved cylinder .455 Webley Mark VI revolver.

It appears that when many Webleys were imported into the US they had their cylinders "shaved" to accept the 45 ACP round, but with lower powder charges. Mine is "unshaved", so it shoots the harder-to-find .455 Webley Mark 2 ammunition. (I found some 262gr Fiocchi at Midway.)

I didn't put as many rounds down range as I would have liked, but here's what I found.

Loading this revolver is a delight. What a machine! What metal!
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(Note: this is not my revolver, but it looks pretty much exactly the same.)

It's a double-action revolver with a 6-round capacity and a top-break loading. It has an auto-ejector that brings out the cartridges quite nicely. The .455 Webley round has a thin rim that makes this feature helpful.

The top-break lever is well-placed so that one's right thumb is perfectly positioned to activate it. The six rounds seated for me probably as well as the first day it went into service.
I first put the target out around 20 feet. This thing has an amazingly-long trigger pull. Someday I'd like to get it measured. It's easily the heaviest trigger that I own. The trigger does pull all the way back, allowing you to pinch your finger between the trigger and the guard if you're not careful.

In DA shooting, I tended to shoot a bit high and to the right, with a poor grouping. Still, I hit the target!
In SA shooting, I had a much-tighter grouping but was still just a bit too high and to the right. This was consistent through the three groups of six rounds I sent downrange.

The fellow next to me came over at one point to tell me that he loved the sound it was making. (At an indoor range I tend to use both in-the-ear and muffs, so I wasn't hearing anything.)

I have since read some articles/posts that seemed to indicate that I was shooting too near, which might explain why I was hitting higher than where I was aiming.

Overall, it was a delight to shoot. I'll need both some more ammo and the equipment for reloading. I'm hoping to take it outdoors next week.
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Re: Range Reports

Post by Brian D. »

When you reload for it, try some lighter bullet weights. That may fix the elevation issue. I owned Mark VI's a couple times, they were reconfigured for .45 acp, as you describe. Both always shot low with 230 grain ammo.

Also, keep your reloads to the mildish end of the spectrum, these guns aren't as strong as solid frame revolvers.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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rimfireOH
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Re: Range Reports

Post by rimfireOH »

Thank you, Brian D.
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Hi Point .45 pistol

Post by M-Quigley »

Hi Point .45 pistol

New unfired at time of test

Hi Point .45 pistol

When I mentioned using throwing bullet weights in lighter than 230 grain also just for reliability testing, while most of the lighter stuff was HP, some was semi wadcutters. I've seen in the past with other .45 acp pistols if it will reliably shoot semi wadcutters it's pretty reliable with other ammo as well.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=94298&p=4405719&hil ... +#p4405719" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
M-Quigley
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Ruger LCP Max

Post by M-Quigley »

Ruger LCP MAX
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This is a review of the Ruger LCP Max .380 acp pistol that I had the opportunity to test out. The gun was new, and both the owner and I experienced a
failure to feed on literally every round. We couldn't see what the issue was but when the owner called Ruger and gave them the serial number they
seemed to know what the problem was. The lady told him he could sent it in to CS or they could send him a new slide and barrel, and he chose the 2nd option.

After 2 weeks it arrived, and when he replaced the slide and barrel everything functioned fine. The gun only came with one 10 rd. magazine, but he
found a genuine Ruger magazine online for $30. The places that carried on wanted more than that. It also came with a metal lockbox and a loader tool,
because getting the last rounds in without it is difficult. It has a dot type front sight that captures or reflexes light in low light conditions,
making it easy to see in low light conditions. (tritium) The rear site is drift adjustable, and after finding that it shot to the left at distances past 10 yards regardless of which hand you used, and whether you shot it 2 handed or on the device for shooting a handgun that holds it steady while you pull the trigger, he made a very slight adjustment, which worked fine. It's not adjustable for elevation but up and down it was spot on at 10 yards for both of us.
The further out you go the lower the point of impact. IDK if that's due to the slower speed of the .380 ammo or not.

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A lot of people who have an LCP 1 have issues with the trigger but I measured his LCP 1 and it had a steady pull of 6.5 lbs, while his new Max had
a extremely light pull until you get to the back of the trigger guard, then you feel resistance that broke at 8.5 lbs. Unlike the LCP 1 the Max
locks open on the last shot. He had a Hogue rubber grip sleeve on both guns, and it felt about the same amount of recoil. With the grip being
slightly wider on the max it might feel more controllable in some peoples hands than the LCP one. The Max is only slightly larger than the #1,
and easily fits in a pocket holster that is designed for it. I think he said it came with a thin cheap holster but he chose to get a good stiff
leather pocket holster that has a solid piece of leather between the holster and the pocket with the rough side out. This way you can stick it
in a front of rear pocket and the outline of the gun doesn't show, looks just like a wallet. If you have to draw it out the holster stays in the
pocket.

The trigger has a blade safety on the front like most striker fired guns, except it's actually a mostly cocked hammer fired gun. The #1 is also
a partially cocked hammer fired gun but it does not have a blade safety. Neither gun had a thumb safety. If I were going to carry it and ever
needed to reholster, I would not stick it in the holster while in the pocket. I would take out the holster, put the gun in, and then put the
whole thing in the pocket. This way the trigger is covered. And of course I wouldn't put anything else in that same pocket, even though the trigger is covered by the holster.

Although he and I were getting hits on the man shaped target out to 25 yards, the group size wasn't anything to write home or brag about shooting
2 hand unsupported. :( If I were going to have to shoot this gun at a distance past 15 yards I would do much better supporting my hands, whether
it's on something like a table or trash can, etc, or in a kneeling position. At anything up to 10 yards it's fine, easily shooting 12 oz
aluminum cans filled with water. At 15 yds we shot 2 liter plastic bottles filled with water. We mostly used FMJ rounds, but we also tested
it with his carry ammo, which is HPR HP and it was reliable with those. With 11 rds in the gun and a spare mag you have 21 rounds available.
He did better than I did on the paper targets because he has a lot of experience shooting the #1, but I still did okay with it. It doesn't
recoil as bad a lightweight snub nose revolver, which I've shot in the past. Between the two of us we shot about 200 rounds over a few days.

While it's not a gun I would feel comfortable shooting a lot at any one time, or shooting at long distances, if I wanted a pocket pistol,
I think it would be a good choice, particularly if the trigger pull lightens up a little over time. The pull weight was lighter on the #1, but
then again that pistol had 1200 rounds thru it when I measured it, not brand new like the Max.
M-Quigley
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Deltapoint micro 3 moa red dot pistol sight

Post by M-Quigley »

Deltapoint micro red dot 3 moa sight

Having my own private range I get to test out stuff that certain people bring over, and one of the pistols had a Deltapoint micro red dot sight
installed. I'm not a fan of most red dots mounted on pistols because of the time it takes me to find the dot, although I admit I've not practiced
with one a lot. With most red dots on pistols I've found the dot is above the sight plane of the standard sights, and the housing sticks up high
from the slide. The smaller the pistol the more pronounced the height seems to be compared to the size of the pistol.

The Delta point micro however is a very low profile sight, and instead of the electronics being underneath or in the housing it's actually behind
the dot housing, sitting behind the slide, and in line with the sight plane the pistol was designed for. It looks a little weird compared to
other red dot sights. Finding the dot is super easy and quick if you're holding the pistol like you were using iron sights. In addition to shooting
it with the dot on, I tried shooting the pistol with the red dot off, sort of a test of what would happen if it quit working, using the aperature
like a peep sight and centering the front sight in it. While the group center was a little off from what the red dot was adjusted for, it was still
good enough to work pretty good. Definitely close enough to use in a defensive encounter. When he had the iron sights on it the pistol didn't exactly
shoot to point of aim either the farther out he shot it.

Another nice aspect was even though some of it is behind the slide, it doesn't interfere with his IWB holster that he was using prior to installing
the red dot. He said installing it was easy, and didn't require a special slide or machining of a slide. You take out the rear sight, and the mount
goes on that the same way that you would install a new sight. While it is currently only designed for glock and S&W M&P pistols there are allegedly
some other pistols that are capable of using glock sights, like for example the Taurus G3C and GX4 , and I've seen people successfully install the
Deltapoint micro on those also.

While I don't have a M&P or Glock or a GX4 or G3C, if I had one and if I felt the desire to mount a red dot on it, I would definitely prefer to use
the deltapoint micro. Perhaps in the future they will mount on other handguns.
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Bear Creek AR pistol upper 300 blackout

Post by M-Quigley »

Bear Creek AR pistol upper 300 blackout

This is a review of the Bear Creek pistol upper in .300 blackout that I've had the opportunity to test out. It has an 8 inch barrel without flash hider, 9.5 with it attached. I've read some bad reviews of Bear Creek products in general online, but IDK if those issues were from back when they started or not. Once you get a bad rap on something it's hard to get rid of. They are less expensive than other brands. All I can attest to is what I saw and fired, and to me it seemed to be of good quality. It functioned reliably with the 110 grain, 124 grain, and the 150 grain ammo. The 110 grain Ammo incorporated ammo is what he carries in his car when he is part of the safety team, and at 100 yards the group size was a little less than 3.5 inches. For what he is using it for, that is acceptable accuracy from a pistol with a 2 moa red dot. IDK if it was scoped if it would do better in group size or not, but for what he is using it for and the potential distances, it's acceptable. It was a very comfortable shooter, to me the recoil not significantly worse than a AR in 5.56, and lighter and handier than a carbine. :)

When the 210 Remington ammo was tested, while it ejected the spent brass, the bolt went forward without chambering a new round. IDK if the subsonic ammo would've functioned normally with a suppressor attached because the owner didn't have one, and he is unlikely to get one, since his is for outdoor use. While it is subsonic and doesn't have the particular noise associated with supersonic ammo, IDK how loud it would be indoors without hearing protection' and without a suppressor, since we never fired it indoors. For him it is a single purpose weapon, to give him something to have in his vehicle that will give him on equal footing in a parking lot with a mass shooter who might be armed with a rifle. Imagine for example if someone could've stopped the Sutherland Springs Tx mass shooter while he was outside the church, instead of the guy going in and murdering those defenseless people. :( The church he goes to has a lot more people inside than that church had. If he could legally have a loaded rifle in his vehicle he would have, maybe in .223, but being a civilian he's legally limited to a pistol. Even if he wasn't restricted however, the AR pistol is a little handier to deal with getting in and out than a longer rifle. In a pistol barrel length AR the .300 blackout allegedly doesn't have the percentage of velocity loss that a 5.56 AR pistol allegedly experiences. The head of the safety team and the local police chief knows he has it in his car for when he is outside, and they both approve of him having it at church, instead of him merely having to rely on just his concealed compact handgun when outside, and maybe facing a potential mass shooter with a rifle.

As far as his choice of 110 grain IDK if it's the best choice for what he's using it for, perhaps a 124 grain or 150 grain would be better, IDK. If in the
future he decides to use either of those options instead, at least he knows they will function reliably in his gun. All he would have to do is maybe adjust his 2 moa red dot to account for a different point of aim. His choice of the 110 grain was partly due to price, because he got a great deal on it at one time from a local dealer. 300 blackout ammo is more expensive than .223 or 5.56 which makes practicing with it more expensive, but he got the best deal pricewise on this caliber as compared to other bullet weights. Since he initially bought the ammo however, that particular brand and weight is no longer available from that dealer, and other dealers who have 110 grain rounds want a lot more $$ now. The most available weights in his area right now for supersonic are 124 and 150, but he's got plenty of the 110 to use for practice until he might have to think about a different loading. IDK about effectiveness against an attacker, only that gel testing seems to indicate that it would be effective against a 2 legged attacker. Some people however consider the 110 to be strictly a varmint round and go for a heavier bullet for personal protection. Looking online, some people in other states than Ohio have taken buck deer with the 110 grain bullet out of a rifle, but like I said earlier, 300 blackout doesn't lose the same % of velocity going to a shorter barrel as a .223 would. Jim Cirillo of the famed NYCPD stakeout squad used an M1 carbine against armed suspects, and he reported the 110 grain HP rounds were very effective. The same bullet diameter and weight but higher velocity from a 300 blackout might be similarly effective. Anyway, if he wants to go heavier in the future he has a lot of potential choices.
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