Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

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M-Quigley
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Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by M-Quigley »

https://www.whio.com/news/local/game-ch ... LUVFF2UAQ/

Could someone explain this one to me? (the bolded part)
The centerpiece of the center area eTrace and the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network.

NIBIN is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive’s network of millions of ballistic images captured from crime scenes across the nation.

ETrace is ATF’s program that can trace guns used in crimes to the retail store they were bought at.

As a result, multiple shootings can be tied together, whether they happened in the same neighborhood or hundreds of miles apart, and shooters can be identified more quickly, the release states.
I know ballistic testing of a recovered bullet might be able to identify the make and model of the gun that fired it, but tracing it to the retail store that sold it? I thought in order to do that you would have to do a ballistic test individually on every gun available for sale and put it in a database, not just bullets recovered from crime scenes.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by FormerNavy »

Just a guess here but it seems to me that it is talking about two separate systems, for two different things. One is a clearinghouse of ballistics information from crime scenes. The other is the eTrace where they can quickly trace a gun to the first retailer that sold the gun. The latter though would really just be the initial point of sale... the first time it was sold, if I understand correctly.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by M-Quigley »

FormerNavy wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:39 am Just a guess here but it seems to me that it is talking about two separate systems, for two different things. One is a clearinghouse of ballistics information from crime scenes. The other is the eTrace where they can quickly trace a gun to the first retailer that sold the gun. The latter though would really just be the initial point of sale... the first time it was sold, if I understand correctly.
As far as tracing a gun from manufacturer to distributor to gun shop to buyer, ATF was doing that even way back in the 80's when I had an FFL. I recall hearing a story back then about how ATF was using computers even back then. Of course "back then" was way different than today. A lot of government computer information was stored on paper punch cards and tape.

I wonder how they are going to pin a particular gun crime to a particular suspect when it's a "community gun"?

So if this program does help to solve a crime, what are prosecutors and or judges in places like Columbus going to do about it, particularly when the suspects are minors? The news I hear coming out of Columbus, many of the offenders are committing crimes while they are out after being charged with a previous crime.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ha ... mong-teens
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by Brian D. »

M-Quigley wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:53 am
I wonder how they are going to pin a particular gun crime to a particular suspect when it's a "community gun"?

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ha ... mong-teens
That article you posted is over two years old, and hasn't aged well. (Not your fault, obviously.) The Shot Spotter technology has been a big fat goose egg, mostly. No one has found a solution to the "community gun" conundrum. The crime scene location mentioned, Smale Park, has seen late night shootings since it opened. Often the guns aren't found because the park is next to and directly above the Ohio River. Easy peasy, throw those guns away and steal more. Need wheels for your muggings, car break ins, etc? Steal a credit card and rent a Red Bike©. Those are available as getaway vehicles 24/7. (The city did make the electric scooter companies power off their rentals at 9pm. May have helped a little.)
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by M-Quigley »

Brian D. wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:16 am
M-Quigley wrote: Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:53 am
I wonder how they are going to pin a particular gun crime to a particular suspect when it's a "community gun"?

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ha ... mong-teens
That article you posted is over two years old, and hasn't aged well. (Not your fault, obviously.) The Shot Spotter technology has been a big fat goose egg, mostly. No one has found a solution to the "community gun" conundrum. The crime scene location mentioned, Smale Park, has seen late night shootings since it opened. Often the guns aren't found because the park is next to and directly above the Ohio River. Easy peasy, throw those guns away and steal more. Need wheels for your muggings, car break ins, etc? Steal a credit card and rent a Red Bike©. Those are available as getaway vehicles 24/7. (The city did make the electric scooter companies power off their rentals at 9pm. May have helped a little.)
I knew the article was from 2018, and wasn't posted to imply it was new news. The issue of a community gun has been going on for years, well before 2018. NY was having a problem with them over a decade ago. My intent was merely to choose one article out of many on the subject to clarify to someone reading on here who might not know what a "community gun" is to illustrate what a "community gun" is and how it works. When I said something to my wife before posting she had no idea what a "community gun" was. She never lived in a big city, so it's understandable. I didn't even consider anything in the link about any reference to shot spotter, but I agree with your assessment about it. I didn't know they were using rental bikes to commit crimes, but it makes sense. (from a technical aspect, not that committing crime at all makes sense)
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by Brian D. »

Stolen or otherwise acquired dirt bikes, without license plates, have helped thieves in Washington DC escape capture for nearly a decade. Us midwesterners are always behind the times.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by evan price »

Brian D. wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:16 am That article you posted is over two years old, and hasn't aged well. (Not your fault, obviously.) The Shot Spotter technology has been a big fat goose egg, mostly.
Shotspotter is a joke. I am regularly test firing center fire rifles into a sand barrel in a shotspotter monitored area and never seen a cop yet.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by M-Quigley »

Brian D. wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:26 pm Stolen or otherwise acquired dirt bikes, without license plates, have helped thieves in Washington DC escape capture for nearly a decade. Us midwesterners are always behind the times.
DC sounds like those 3rd world countries in the movies where someone or two someones are riding around, commit some kind of crime and then ride off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ga58WmNV0
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by schmieg »

M-Quigley wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:06 am
Brian D. wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:26 pm Stolen or otherwise acquired dirt bikes, without license plates, have helped thieves in Washington DC escape capture for nearly a decade. Us midwesterners are always behind the times.
DC sounds like those 3rd world countries in the movies where someone or two someones are riding around, commit some kind of crime and then ride off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ga58WmNV0
When that happened to one of my sergeants, he emptied his pistol at the escapees on Tu Do Street in Saigon. He missed them and, luckily, everyone else on the very crowded street. Using a snub nose .38 on a moving target is not the best choice.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by M-Quigley »

schmieg wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:22 pm
M-Quigley wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:06 am
Brian D. wrote: Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:26 pm Stolen or otherwise acquired dirt bikes, without license plates, have helped thieves in Washington DC escape capture for nearly a decade. Us midwesterners are always behind the times.
DC sounds like those 3rd world countries in the movies where someone or two someones are riding around, commit some kind of crime and then ride off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ga58WmNV0
When that happened to one of my sergeants, he emptied his pistol at the escapees on Tu Do Street in Saigon. He missed them and, luckily, everyone else on the very crowded street. Using a snub nose .38 on a moving target is not the best choice.
Tell me if I'm wrong but I'm going to guess he didn't practice with it much, and had the stock wooden grips which on a snubnose, particularly the very lightweight models, can make practice with it painful, or at least it did for me. The first shots I tried with a stock one it hurt and made my hands bleed a little bit.

It's not the greatest on a static target either for most people as the distance increases. After a lot of practice I was able to OPOTA qualify with one, (barely) but I had the benefit of not having to buy the ammo and I put some huge rubber grips on it. It almost reminded me of a clown wearing supersize clown shoes. While the grips made it harder to conceal, it did allow for me to get a better purchase (grip) on the gun when drawing from IWB. Still, with the sight radius being half of the gun that I carried when in uniform, my shots weren't as good as I would've liked.

Do you know what was stolen from the Sergeant? Any idea or opinion of what would've happened to him legally if he had hit a thief moving away from him in Saigon?
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by schmieg »

M-Quigley wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:49 am
schmieg wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:22 pm
M-Quigley wrote: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:06 am

DC sounds like those 3rd world countries in the movies where someone or two someones are riding around, commit some kind of crime and then ride off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ga58WmNV0
When that happened to one of my sergeants, he emptied his pistol at the escapees on Tu Do Street in Saigon. He missed them and, luckily, everyone else on the very crowded street. Using a snub nose .38 on a moving target is not the best choice.
Tell me if I'm wrong but I'm going to guess he didn't practice with it much, and had the stock wooden grips which on a snubnose, particularly the very lightweight models, can make practice with it painful, or at least it did for me. The first shots I tried with a stock one it hurt and made my hands bleed a little bit.

It's not the greatest on a static target either for most people as the distance increases. After a lot of practice I was able to OPOTA qualify with one, (barely) but I had the benefit of not having to buy the ammo and I put some huge rubber grips on it. It almost reminded me of a clown wearing supersize clown shoes. While the grips made it harder to conceal, it did allow for me to get a better purchase (grip) on the gun when drawing from IWB. Still, with the sight radius being half of the gun that I carried when in uniform, my shots weren't as good as I would've liked.

Do you know what was stolen from the Sergeant? Any idea or opinion of what would've happened to him legally if he had hit a thief moving away from him in Saigon?
It was a standard military issue S&W snubbie - no modifications. I do believe that it was the first time he had ever fired it. I never fired mine in the year I was over there, though I did fire the M16 on a couple of operations. We only carried the snubbies when in civilian clothing. What was stolen was a camera with pictures on it that he was taking to 525 MI HQ. Had he hit the thief, probably nothing would have happened because of that. We never found out if it was a targeted theft though.
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Re: Ohio governor unveils alleged "game changer" new gun violence inititive

Post by SMMAssociates »

Locally, the City PD is all over themselves about the "Shotspotter". So far, about all it can tell you is whether or not a gun was fired near the device. Not a lot of help if the shooter is in a car :), or has a two (or more) wheel vehicle, and can be long gone before Dispatch can send a car....

(I suppose a street event or some kind of fair might be a better venue for this gadget, but....)

One of my first guns was a Charter "Undercover" - pretty much the same as a "Chief's Special", but super-light. Couldn't hit anything with it, although not quite as unpleasant as the Smith. Adding Charter's "Bulldog" grips made it a really decent carry weapon, if the short barrel wasn't counted.

I got an S@W Model 19 for uniform duty, and realized that a 3" or 4" piece would be a better choice for plainclothes (or concealed) use. Being big enough to conceal a small vehicle at the time, a Model 10 did the job for many years. (I lost about 50 pounds over the last year or so - been sick, but not totally disabled, for at least that year. Someday....

A really cheap Chromebook helps me a bit, but not all that well. (I love the popup i got a couple months back: "There's an OS update you might want if you buy a new Chromebook you can download it."

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Stu.

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