>> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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BB62
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>> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

I wasn't quite sure where to put this, although it may turn into an event, but figured this was as good as any place. You can find more detail and/or links at my Fascistbook page: https://www.facebook.com/jeffry.smith.35/

First email, with periods (.) inserted to maintain line spacing across multiple platforms):

This was sent to the Cincinnati City Solicitor, the Police Chief, two high level officers, Ohio Gun Owners, a contact at the Ohio AG's office, and the media:
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Ms. Woerner, Chief Theetge, Captain Hammer, and Lieutenant Hunley,
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My name is Jeffry K. Smith.
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I’ve been involved in multiple gun-rights activities in Cincinnati, statewide and out of state for almost 20 years now. In Cincinnati, events I have coordinated include two open carry events at the Fireworks, two open carry events at the Cincinnati Pride Festival, two open carry events at the University of Cincinnati, as well numerous other events/communications with political or legal authorities to correct or resolve law violations, or for public education/relations purposes.
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I’m also a graduate of the Cincinnati Citizens Police Academy, a concealed handgun licensee, and a firearms instructor.
.
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NOTICE:
Since at least 2014, and no doubt for years before, “No Weapons” or notices to that effect have been posted on the internet and at entrances to the WEBN/Western Southern Fireworks, presumably by WEBN/W&S or their designees.
Despite the urges of various politicians or others in positions or power, and as confirmed by multiple records requests over the years, neither WEBN or Western & Southern have such legal domain over Fireworks attendees. This means neither they nor their designees can legally search people/their possessions (Fourth Amendment), disallow weapons (Second Amendment & state analogues), or create the appearance of disallowing the possession or carry of **legally possessed** things.
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Yet, despite the City being put on notice twice, and by my and others appearance at the Fireworks carrying sidearms, accompanied by media coverage, WEBN and Western & Southern continue their charade. The City of Cincinnati has allowed and continues to allow, either via ‘blind’ acquiesce, if not by encouragement and passionate involvement, this AURA of authority to persist. See the attached picture from the 2021 Fireworks.
>> In order to draw attention to this continued charade, this year I and others will be openly carrying sidearms and/or a *slung* longarm at the Fireworks. <<
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Given the “rules”, doing so will be a exercise of both our First Amendment and Second Amendment rights.
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The *slung* longarms will be unloaded, and no ammunition/magazines for said longarms will be carried by participants.
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We may also simultaneously carry one or more “prohibited” items. (see list at bottom of email)
.
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Regarding the above, my questions are as follows:
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1) Will there be any official attempts to prevent participants from doing so, directly, or by threat of citation or arrest?
2) If any of you/CPD’s officers intend to prevent me/others from doing so, please cite the legal authority under which you intend to proceed.
3) If any of you/CPD’s officers intend to stop me/others while our participation is in motion, please cite the legal authority under which you intend to proceed.
.
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I’m fully aware that one or more of you may threaten or direct CPD to act on inducing panic or disorderly conduct charges, despite their inapplicability. And, who knows what else you might come up with? BUT the real solution to this conundrum that the city seems to have placed itself in is simple: DO NOT violate, continue the aura of acceptance of violation, or allow one or more entities to violate individual’s *civil rights*.
.
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In conclusion, I would be pleased to coordinate entry of the participants into, for instance, the Serpentine Wall park, should you wish to make it so.
.
.
Cordially,
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

Follow-up email to Scott Reinhart, of iHeartMedia, owner of WEBN, and CCed to all previous email recipients:

Scott,
.
Noting that you are the contact on the attached permit application for the 2023 Fireworks, and presumably the “person in charge” - I’ve left you a voicemail asking that you return my call.
.
Based on the contents of the FAQ page for the fireworks, and the signage at the Fireworks since at least 2014, it seems like WEBN/iHeart is up to its old tricks again regarding not only creating the appearance that you have the authority to ban “weapons” (however it is that ‘management’ purports to define them), but also to violate individuals Fourth Amendment rights by making it appear you (WEBN/W&S/their designees) can demand various searches, and additionally ban whatever items you please from the riverfront. To that end, I draw your attention to the following wording: “Any other items deemed inappropriate or unacceptable by management” and “This list of prohibited items is subject to change at any time at the discretion of management.”
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I have yet to see a document granting you such ubiquitous powers. I don’t think such a document exists - but maybe you can provide it?
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Speaking specifically to the matter of “weapons”, allow me to point you to page 13 of the attached pdf (page-labeled 12 of 16), where it says “All permits are subject to the regulations contained in the City of Cincinnati Municipal Code, Section 739-3 (Use of Central Riverfront) and Section 739-5 (Prohibited Use of the Central Riverfront)”. You should note that Section 739-5(9)of the Municipal code says it does not apply to “… to the possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms as defined by Section 708-1-B of the Cincinnati Municipal Code, components of firearms, or firearm ammunition as defined and regulated by Ohio Revised Code Chapter 2923, Conspiracy, Attempt, and Complicity; Weapons Control and Corrupt Activity.”
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https://library.municode.com/oh/cincinn ... -5PRUSCERI
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I also suggest you look at the attached picture of me, and the sign beside me, at the 2021 Fireworks.
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As far as I’m concerned, WEBN/W&S/your designees, possibly along with the silent acquiesce of, or the active cooperation of the City, are subversively and/or secretly working to deprive individuals of their civil rights, by trickery, and/or by color of law. This is simply not acceptable.
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So, unless you and I can come to some agreement about concrete steps to be taken so that at this year’s Fireworks you will no longer continue to perpetuate the appearance of authority with respect to violating people’s civil rights, I will formally contact the Park Board and ask that they revoke WEBN’s/iHeart’s permit. I’ll be speaking and/or otherwise communicating with them tomorrow at mid-morning.

Cordially,
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

UPDATE

I spoke with Scott Reinhart of iHeartMedia (owner of WEBN) this morning. Completely ignoring the thrust of my email, he assured me that I would be fine carrying my firearm(s) at the Fireworks.

He repeatedly used the words "family friendly event" and repeatedly dodged the fact (which he did not dispute, despite my asking him to do so) that the posted signage and the "rules" on the web are NOT backed by the law. I said (not verbatim) "You don't have the authority you claim", and are getting people to follow the 'rules' by trickery.

**ASTOUNDING CLAIM**: he said that it was the City, which he later changed to an outside events company, which was responsible for the content of the signage and the "rules" on the web!

He said that there were a number of meetings, apparently with the City and/or the events company, which he did not attend, but would look into it and get back to me. I'll be quite astounded if he does so.

Bottom line: the emperor has no clothes, and by their lack of action, the city is implicitly approving searches in violation of the Fourth Amendment, "No Weapons" signage in violation of the Second Amendment, etc. - all under the apparently color of law.

P.S. - if you're interested in attending, please PM me here or PM me on Fascistbook.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by WhyNot »

good news !

subscribed 8)
Acquisitions thus far:

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

Final email, just sent:

ALL RECIPIENTS,

I’m disappointed at the lack of a response to my emails, but not necessarily surprised. IF I weren’t on solid legal ground, one of the many, many recipients of my emails would have waved me off/answered my questions, but then again that’s not happened at/about the Fireworks for the past 9 years. What is and has been foisted on the public is nothing less than a conspiracy to violate civil rights.

Again, I don’t have nor have I ever had the intention to violate the law – but I’ve not been informed that my plans would be a violation – instead it’s been all smoke and mirrors.

Unfortunately, that’s been my experience with government officials – to hold on to power, or the appearance of power, until the last minute. The media apparently believes that the First Amendment is sacrosanct, but the others are just excess baggage, as long as the “cause” is good, or the “right” people are affected.
Erica Faaborg of the Cincinnati Law Department confirmed her receipt of my notice, Scott Reinhart has been fairly responsive, and Brian Thomas of 55KRC has asked me to follow up with him next Thursday (I was on his Friday show), one way or another.

Sgt. Roellig remains unreachable – maybe purposely. But, then again, it was he I spoke to in 2021 – when he claimed that the Fireworks were a private event! ROFL That was the same year, as pictured previosuly, that I openly carried two handguns into the “event grounds”.

Regardless of how today turns out, Chris Dorr of Ohio Gun Owners has expressed interest in the violation of *multiple* rights, and as I said, Brian Thomas has asked for a follow-up.

If I’m charged or denied entrance, I can guarantee that nterest in this matter will go WAY up – but those of you in positions of power and authority will have brought it upon yourselves. If necessary, the discovery process, especially of iHeartMedia and Cincinnati Events Management, will be VERY interesting.

I encourage a thorough reading of this email chain, as not all emails have been sent to everyone.

Cordially,
me
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by WhyNot »

excellent return email. All I could add is a suggestion send another email, advising them to preserve all relevant documents, memos,calls, emails etc. for potential legal purposes. (if you haven't done that already)
Acquisitions thus far:

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by Brian D. »

BB62 posted elsewhere last night, stating that he wasn't harassed, detained, arrested, pelted with rotten fruit, etc. I suspect that certain behind the scenes people with clout* will continue to post these unlawful, unconstitutional "rules" every year at the event.

*My opinion of who they are? A cabal of police / city officials, their shysters, the legal departments of Western Southern, iHeartRadio, Toyota, and other sponsors. The feds have increased their involvement in the event the last several years, so maybe Homeland Security has urged the restrictions too? Such arrogance and hypocrisy wouldn't surprise me a bit.

I have no interest in attending, but wouldn't go there unarmed. It's a "weapon free zone" on paper, is all. They can't possibly make that a reality, and any of us with a lick of sense can see that.
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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

This post and the related videos/pictures can be read on my Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/jeffry.smith.3 ... LhgaVLf6Fl

http://tinyurl.com/3wudm98n


>> WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks 2023 << (**AFTER-ACTION** report)

* Videos & pictures are posted in the comments section *

Now that I'm rested up from Sunday (and time with friends yesterday) here it is... 😀😀

I'll tell you right up front that this was THE BEST Riverfest I've ever attended for conversations.

After sending a number of emails, the contents of which are documented in prior posts identified by the fireworks image, I sent one final note about 1 1/2 hours before leaving home. Despite all the emails and voicemails I sent, NO ONE, except Scott Reinhart from iHeartMedia (the event permit applicant) ever called me. He and I never concluded our series of communications, but at least he had the decency to make an effort.

> Note that "quotes" below are approximately what was said, not necessarily verbatim <

There are two entrances to the fenced-off riverfront 'event' area: on the East is Sawyer Point Park and on the West is the Public Landing and the terminus of the Serpentine Wall.

Arriving at the East entrance around 12:45, I walked through a tented area containing tables on which event staff would inform the uninformed that they needed to put their purses, etc. etc. for inspection. The list of "Prohibited Items" was numerous.

I was wearing two Glock handguns (.45 & 10mm) in Safariland Level III hooded retention holsters, and a F&N PS90 in a sling on my right side. *No mag for the PS90 was in the gun or on me*. As I cleared the tent on the "event" side, one of the 'Event Staff' said "Do you have anything in your pockets sir?" I said "Yes I do, but what's in them is my business". I think she kind of huffed. My friend put her purse on the table for inspection, then joined me on the other side of the 'tent'. (video below)

NOTE: police officers are no longer stationed at the entrances. I suspect that the reason behind it is that Cincinnati wants to have plausible deniability (which will ultimately fail) that CPD/the City is not effectively endorsing/enforcing the illegal searches, etc etc.

I posed for a pic next to one of "Prohibited Items" posters, then walked on westward. It'll probably come up, so I'll just answer it here - I wore the yellow shirt you'll see for attention getting purposes, NOT because it just happened to resemble the "Event Staff" shirt color. I got it and others years ago when running for Trustee of the township in which I live. Otherwise, at 5' 21", you kind of blend in with the crowd... 😉

Moving towards the West entrance we saw the "Naked Cowboy", who it turns out is from Cincinnati, and of course my friend wanted her picture with him. As I shook his hand he said that the "Event Staff" almost hadn't let him in (but they made an exception) with his musical instrument!! I tapped on one of my handguns and said "Yeah, these are prohibited too!". Shocked/surprised, he immediately took a half a step backwards! LOL We all chatted a bit and he did an impromptu "Second Amendment" ditty. (video below)

Later I exited and re-entered the West entrance (video below), chatting with people in line, some of whom predicted I would have trouble getting in. There was none, much to their surprise.

The second time I went through the West entrance, one of the "event staff" said "You can't bring that in here" - referring to a Mountain Dew bottle I had partially filled with water. I said "Watch me" and continued walking.

I exited and re-entered both entrances at least twice during the day.

Almost from the start, attendees noted my handgun(s), nodding or saying "I'm carrying too" - but when I moved my rifle (with a "Guns Save Lives" sticker on it) to my chest, the number of people commenting positively, turning their heads, and/or engaging in conversation went waaaaay up! It was great! 😀

Meanwhile, my friend, who has never been to an OC (open carry) event before, and whose insight and observations were simply *invaluable*, was completely floored by the following:

- That was wasn't immediately stopped at the gate
- At the number of people (at least 3 dozen) who engaged me in sometimes lengthy conversations
- At the number of people who asked "Is that a P90??"
- At the number of people who said "Nice gun! or "What are you carrying?"
- At the number of people who said they were carrying (concealed)
- That she saw NO ONE fearfully pull their children away from me
- That none of the CPD officers *seemed* to be concerned or paying me any attention

The conversations I had were positive, numerous, varied, informative and in some cases ANGRY. There was no anger with me, but there sure was anger when I told them that the "prohibitions" were just smoke and mirrors, and that WEBN/etc didn't have the legal domain that it took to enforce the "Prohibited Items" list. They were not only ticked off at being lied to, but they were also angry about items they'd felt compelled to throw away or leave in their car or at home.

Because the event staff was "enforcing" the list, quite a few attendees told me about things they'd left in their cars (guns/knives) or things they felt compelled to throw away (knives, water). They had medicine to take, and/or just didn't want to pay the outrageous vendor prices. I think water was $4 for a 12 ounce bottle, pop was more, and Skyline Cheese coneys were $5, for example. There were plenty of food/liquid/shaved ice concessions, but I saw only TWO functioning water fountains, one of which was low-flow.

I'm sure the list of things "left outside" warms the hearts of various entities and people, but the opportunity and results of many great conversations has reinforced my belief that people, once informed, do **not** appreciate choices or possessions being made off-limits by TRICKERY. The phrase "conspiracy to violate civil rights" comes to mind...

What what has been foisted on the public for at least the last *9* years is NOT just about the Second Amendment, or Ohio's *toothless* preemption law, - it's also about the First Amendment and the Fourth Amendment - all by willful deception.

I and others will be looking more deeply into this angle, not only because of the conversations, but also because of information I became aware of through other sources.

I WILL NOT let this matter drop, and I feel confident that there are multiple paths forward. I appreciate input, and I encourage you to watch my timeline/feed, on this topic and about gun rights in general, even if you have to occasionally go directly to my FB page.

Fascistbook doesn't take kindly to/suppresses the voices of those dare speak freely, on any number of topics.

Next year, *if necessary*, the matter may need your PHYSICAL support - via attendance @ Riverfest.

If it's needed, SLUNG LONGARMS will *definitely* be part of any such Educational Walk, but because of the crowd density I think magazines for them are a "maybe".

Thanks for reading.

P.S. - I'm going to attempt to be in Brian Thomas' radio show in Thursday morning, 5-9AM on 550 AM, WKRC. He asked for a report when I was on his show last Friday.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by Brian D. »

Kabuki Theatre "security" measures are too often accepted blindly these days.
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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by Brian D. »

Let me ask a few questions, since it's been years since I attended: Are there a limited amount of specified entrance points? Is it possible to circumvent them by climbing over a low portable barricade wall or something? Would rapid escape be possible by moving/kicking down said barriers?

Getting the hell outta there in an emergency is much more important to me than how I get in for the event.
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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

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Brian D. wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:05 am Let me ask a few questions, since it's been years since I attended: Are there a limited amount of specified entrance points? Is it possible to circumvent them by climbing over a low portable barricade wall or something? Would rapid escape be possible by moving/kicking down said barriers?

Getting the hell outta there in an emergency is much more important to me than how I get in for the event.
1) Are there a limited amount of specified entrance points?
YES, there are two: Sawyer Point Park and at the west terminus of the Serpentine Wall. There also *appeared* to be a third one in Sawyer Point Park, on the pedestrian path, but I didn't attempt to go in or out of it. There is also a staff entrance in Sawyer Point Park.


2) Is it possible to circumvent them by climbing over a low portable barricade wall or something?
NO, the fence runs from the two entrances I identified above and is about 7 feet high. There are no low points that I'm aware of.


3) Would rapid escape be possible by moving/kicking down said barriers? Getting the hell outta there in an emergency is much more important to me than how I get in for the event.

Rapid escape? With the number of people present, "rapid" depends on your definition - so yes and no.

There are "Emergency Exits" in the surrounding fence, which are monitored by "Event Staff" (and maybe by CPD? - I didn't focus on them), one of which is in the background of my pics with the Naked Cowboy. Basically the fence can be moved or rolled out of the way. There were no chains or anything securing those exits. At and near both main entrances are also "Emergency Exits", which are VERY wide.

Other than those, the place is pretty well "secured".

At the fireworks conclusion, I exited the purposely opened "Emergency Exit" in the fencing near (but inside the fenced perimeter) the West entrance.


** I texted you some videos before I posted them anywhere - so you have my cell phone #. If you'll text me your email address, I'll send you the event permit application, which includes maps of the layout of fencing, etc. **
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by Brian D. »

You answered my questions just fine. Now I have a better idea of the layout.

On a different note (so to speak) did you get an autograph from The Naked Cowboy? He became reasonably famous years ago. Not sure I'd want to know where he keeps his Sharpie marker for such occasions. :lol:
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Re: >> Cincinnati WEBN/Western & Southern Fireworks <<

Post by BB62 »

Brian D. wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:02 am ... On a different note (so to speak) did you get an autograph from The Naked Cowboy? He became reasonably famous years ago. Not sure I'd want to know where he keeps his Sharpie marker for such occasions. :lol:
LOL

His guitar has cutouts for "tips" that go inside its body, and his picture/autograph cards are kept in compartments attached to & behind his guitar.

I'll send you a pic of his card/autograph.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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