So I just cam across this gem at Bearing Arms .com. Just wanted to pass it on and see what you guys thought about it.
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/12 ... amendment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Open carry is bad
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Open carry is bad
I have struggled with dyslexia my entire life. I know it's spelled wrong but thanks for pointing it out.
- JustaShooter
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Re: Open carry is bad
Pretty much the same stuff we always hear from the "CC is the only true way" evangelists. Long on hyperbole, short on facts or evidence. I found it quite funny that he denigrates open carriers for the exact same stuff concealed carriers do (or don't do, as the case may be).
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- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Open carry is bad
He's a troll. Not worth discussing.
From his very own FB page, in regards to that very story:
From his very own FB page, in regards to that very story:
What fun is having a bear in the zoo if you can't poke it?
MyWifeSaidYes
- Morne
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Re: Open carry is bad
I'm a concealed carrier. I OC only rarely (though I did so this week while installing a Trump for president 4x8' roadside sign). That said, I disagree with a decent chunk of the author's points (but not all):
1 - OC and CC are NOT mutually exclusive. Just because you OC a duty size gun doesn't mean you can't conceal a BUG somewhere else (preferably somewhere easy for your weak hand to draw it). The author acts as if OC'ing means you'll get disarmed and left defenseless the first time you fail to 360-scan for threats and that's just not true.
2 - While CC'ing may be tactically superior in an urban/suburban environment it is no guarantee that the BG won't notice it. Likewise, just because you OC is no guarantee that they will notice it. Had dinner with Chuck and Aaron recently - I doubt our waitress ever saw his OC'ed gun.
3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
4 - He completely ignores the EDUCATIONAL aspect of OC. This, in my mind, is the really big benefit to OC. You get to show people who don't realize it that OC is legal, safe and done by normal folks. Sometimes even when the OC causes a confrontation the end result is still positive - witness the recent OC near a barbershop in Akron.
5 - While the author says he wants to roll back all gun laws he misses just how crucial protecting/normalizing OC is to keeping his CC effective. In states that have overbearing laws against "printing" of your concealed rig the result is that deep concealment becomes the only viable choice. That deep concealment is not as effective as OWB with a sweatshirt over it (how I am carrying today, for instance). You're just not going to get your gun out of your Thunderwear faster than me...besides which Zlogonje doesn't make a codpiece holster (yet).
1 - OC and CC are NOT mutually exclusive. Just because you OC a duty size gun doesn't mean you can't conceal a BUG somewhere else (preferably somewhere easy for your weak hand to draw it). The author acts as if OC'ing means you'll get disarmed and left defenseless the first time you fail to 360-scan for threats and that's just not true.
2 - While CC'ing may be tactically superior in an urban/suburban environment it is no guarantee that the BG won't notice it. Likewise, just because you OC is no guarantee that they will notice it. Had dinner with Chuck and Aaron recently - I doubt our waitress ever saw his OC'ed gun.
3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
4 - He completely ignores the EDUCATIONAL aspect of OC. This, in my mind, is the really big benefit to OC. You get to show people who don't realize it that OC is legal, safe and done by normal folks. Sometimes even when the OC causes a confrontation the end result is still positive - witness the recent OC near a barbershop in Akron.
5 - While the author says he wants to roll back all gun laws he misses just how crucial protecting/normalizing OC is to keeping his CC effective. In states that have overbearing laws against "printing" of your concealed rig the result is that deep concealment becomes the only viable choice. That deep concealment is not as effective as OWB with a sweatshirt over it (how I am carrying today, for instance). You're just not going to get your gun out of your Thunderwear faster than me...besides which Zlogonje doesn't make a codpiece holster (yet).
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Re: Open carry is bad
I agree.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:He's a troll. Not worth discussing.
From his very own FB page, in regards to that very story:
What fun is having a bear in the zoo if you can't poke it?
Must have been a slow news day & the author needed an easy article to post.
(and rack up "page views" for his blog.)
A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.
- Verse 38 from the Havamal, the Wisdom of Odin.
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road.
- Verse 38 from the Havamal, the Wisdom of Odin.
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Re: Open carry is bad
I was going to respond to the OP, but this reply essentially says what I wanted to say much better than I could.Morne wrote:I'm a concealed carrier. I OC only rarely (though I did so this week while installing a Trump for president 4x8' roadside sign). That said, I disagree with a decent chunk of the author's points (but not all):
1 - OC and CC are NOT mutually exclusive. Just because you OC a duty size gun doesn't mean you can't conceal a BUG somewhere else (preferably somewhere easy for your weak hand to draw it). The author acts as if OC'ing means you'll get disarmed and left defenseless the first time you fail to 360-scan for threats and that's just not true.
2 - While CC'ing may be tactically superior in an urban/suburban environment it is no guarantee that the BG won't notice it. Likewise, just because you OC is no guarantee that they will notice it. Had dinner with Chuck and Aaron recently - I doubt our waitress ever saw his OC'ed gun.
3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
4 - He completely ignores the EDUCATIONAL aspect of OC. This, in my mind, is the really big benefit to OC. You get to show people who don't realize it that OC is legal, safe and done by normal folks. Sometimes even when the OC causes a confrontation the end result is still positive - witness the recent OC near a barbershop in Akron.
5 - While the author says he wants to roll back all gun laws he misses just how crucial protecting/normalizing OC is to keeping his CC effective. In states that have overbearing laws against "printing" of your concealed rig the result is that deep concealment becomes the only viable choice. That deep concealment is not as effective as OWB with a sweatshirt over it (how I am carrying today, for instance). You're just not going to get your gun out of your Thunderwear faster than me...besides which Zlogonje doesn't make a codpiece holster (yet).
- Darkness
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Re: Open carry is bad
Numerous?Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.
Just how many is that?
It was not fair, it was not fair, it was not fair. So cried his child's heart, and then his child's heart died a little. For that is also the way of the world.
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Re: Open carry is bad
Two, three, four maybe. Open Carry Dot Org forums has a sort of standing challenge looking for verifiable incidents like that. I've visited there for numerous (HA!) ten years and they have related two such OC gun snatches in that time, as memory serves.Darkness wrote:Numerous?Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.
Just how many is that?
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: Open carry is bad
Decades ago a security guard at a company I worked for was walking around on a night shift, when someone came up behind him, struck him over the head, and took his handgun. The people at the contract told me that prior to this happening, the guy didn't appear to be taking the job seriously, not paying attention, bored, just wanted to put his time in. One of the comments was he was walking around "with his head up his ---" I don't think that this guy is a typical example of most open carriers however.Darkness wrote:Numerous?Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.
Just how many is that?
The last case of an OC gun theft that I read about was some guy who allegedly had half the gun stuck in a back pocket, the other half exposed, instead of being in a holster on a belt. Someone came up from behind him, snatched it out of the pocket and walked off. If true, I'd say ineptitude can go both ways.
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Re: Open carry is bad
When open carrying, your gun is out there for everyone to see. So there's that.
- Werz
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Re: Open carry is bad
You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: Open carry is bad
It's not just text messages. Do a search sometime on all the criminals who brag about and post pics and videos of themselves during or after the criminal activity.Werz wrote:You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
- Werz
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Re: Open carry is bad
I have plenty of those. And no, I'm not going to post any of them.M-Quigley wrote:It's not just text messages. Do a search sometime on all the criminals who brag about and post pics and videos of themselves during or after the criminal activity.Werz wrote:You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
- WY_Not
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Re: Open carry is bad
Aww c'mon. We need something highly entertaining to start off the weekend.
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- OhioPaints
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Re: Open carry is bad
And how many criminals saw an open carried gun and decided to seek easier hunting grounds? Oh, we generally don't know because the crime was avoided because of the open carry.Darkness wrote:Numerous?Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.
Just how many is that?