Lock 3 Akron posted

[hairtrigger]

This park has been posted for a long time. It is clearly posted at every entrance.

[djthomas]

Interesting. So I think the only sign that is really valid is the no skateboarding sign. From what I can tell Lock 3 is not private property, so the no guns sign is out (though it might apply to certain buildings). It is also specifically not against the ORC to smoke outside of a building, so claiming that smoking is prohibited under the Ohio smoking ban is flat wrong too.

IIRC there is a "park" in downtown Columbus that is actually privately owned and they've got signs at every entrance as well. Perhaps a similar arrangement is going on here, although the fact that skateboarding is prohibited by the service director makes me think it's definitely a public park.

[JediSkipdogg]

According to the Summit County Auditor's web page it's owned by the City of Akron.

[Werz]

According to the Summit County Auditor's web page it's owned by the City of Akron.

Yes, I noticed that earlier. I just wasn't sure about the signs. Is anyone doing compliance letters?

[xracer]

Thanks, just posted this last week but didn't have the photo...

[Werz]

Thanks, just posted this last week but didn't have the photo...

The image is appreciated. I was fairly sure that Lock 3 Park had gunbuster signs, but I wasn't certain, and I could not remember how they read.

These signs are the ones which beg for a dialogue with city officials. They start out with "hedge words": "Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code ..." The city officials can then say, "Oh, if you have a concealed handgun license, then you are otherwise authorized by law!" That's when an open carry event may be necessary to test their compliance with R.C. 9.68. Somebody needs to send an email to city officials to tie down their position on this issue.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

I just sent the following to the email address on their web site at http://www.lock3live.com/ to see what kind of response I might get:

I was wondering if the "no guns" signs and policy at Lock3 are in violation of Ohio Revised Code 9.68.

Could you please let me know?

Thanks!

-"MWSY"
December 13, 2014

I'll follow up with city council if needed.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

No response to my email so I gave them a call today.

The park manager claims that, according to their law director, they are a "venue" which is the same as a "building".

The manager also pointed out that they have a liquor license and that "...you can't carry a gun here, just like you can't carry a gun into a bar."

She seemed a bit bewildered when I explained that our 'Restaurant Carry' law applied to bars AND her open-air "venue".

I told her I would take up the issue with their law director regarding "venue" versus "building".

Before doing so, I thought I would check R.C. 2923.121. When I did, I experienced some confusion in reading 2923.121(A):

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

I see two possible meanings of this sentence, depending on how you separate the clauses.

This one is okay:

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

This one, not so much:

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming beer or intoxicating liquor in a premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

Regarding an OPEN CARRIER without a CHL, the first interpretation suggests that someone must be consuming alcohol in an open-air arena before that arena is off-limits to the unlicensed OC'er.

The second interpretation suggests that an open-air arena is off-limits to the unlicensed carrier even if alcohol is NOT being consumed by someone in the arena.

Any thoughts?

[djthomas]

Hmm .. I wonder what private entity is in perpetual lease of the park to be allowed to post ... I did a quick search of liquor permits assigned to South Main St in Akron and didn't come up with any.

[soberbiker]

What about section (B) (1) (E)??? It specifically exempts ccw as long as one isn't drinking.

[catfish86]

When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Hmm .. I wonder what private entity is in perpetual lease of the park to be allowed to post ... I did a quick search of liquor permits assigned to South Main St in Akron and didn't come up with any.

No intermediate entity. Straight up Akron owned and managed.

The D permit is probably issued to city hall.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

What about section (B) (1) (E)??? It specifically exempts ccw as long as one isn't drinking.

THAT'S the part that that made the manager (Tish) seem bewildered. I didn't discuss specific sections of the law with her.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.

Can you give me more info about those garages?

[catfish86]

When I frequented downtown Akron I noticed that several municipal run parking garages were posted. At the courthouse I asked a deputy at the metal detector if someone with a concealed weapon permit storing there pistol in a trunk would be a violation, he shrugged and didn't answer. My point being that Akron and Summit County are less than respectful of concealed carry and firearms laws that limit their authority.

Can you give me more info about those garages?

Haven't been up there in a while, but the Summit County parking garage across High Street from the Courthouse, the parking garages under FirstMerit Bank/PNC are municipal owned, run by a contractor.