Range Report - S&W 3" .357 Model 60

[NavyChief]

I finally got my "dream gun" to the range. The results were, by and large, all I had hoped for. The Model 60 performed flawlessly. The only shortcomings were in the operator and one set of grips I had high hopes for. More on the grips later.

All shooting was done at about seven yards. Targets were 8½x11 sheets of paper with a 2" blue-grey hexagon printed from PowerPoint. Ammunition was a box each of .38 130-gr FMJ from Bob's Ammo Box, and .357 125-gr JHP from Georgia Arms. Grips used were S&W wood boot grips (off my wife's Model 642), the S&W rubber finger-groove grips that came with, and a set of Fitz Gunfighter grips.

There were no real issues to report on the ammo. Although both used were reloads, they performed quite well, putting rounds exactly where I asked. The Georgia Arms did have three "hot" rounds as evidenced by substantially more muzzle flash, but I didn't notice any real difference in felt recoil.

Inasmuch as this trip was to experiment with different grips trying to choose my ultimate "carry" grips, I'll be spending a bit more time on them than I normally would. For testing each set I fired one round single action, followed by four rounds slow-fire double action.

First "out of the box" were the grips off my wife's 642 - the small boot grips. With both the .38 and .357 the first round was near the center of the target. Follow on rounds were generally low and left, but all rounds were "on the paper."

Second up were the rubber factory grips. Again, each first round was right where it was supposed to be, but in this case follow on shots tended toward low and center.

Finally, my long awaited Fitz grips. (A little background - Fitz grips were apparently quite the thing for a goodly number of years. The factory burned down in 1979 and was never rebuilt. So, what's out there is what's out there. These were purchased from the owner who is now in his 70s and unloading all manner of things he found when cleaning out his mountain retreat.) Installed on the Model 60 these things look just great. They come from the factory just a little "rough" presumably with the idea the end user will put the finishing touches on to suit - but there's nothing wrong with them from the get-go. They're a medium brown that set off the 60's stainless finish quite nicely. And they give the gun a "pointability" that's almost spooky - almost like pointing your index finger. So I obviously had high hopes. First round with .38 - low left. Follow on shots - ??? - dunno. .357 first round - low right. Two of the four follow ons low right and left, the other two, again - ???. Oh, and they also do not have adequate clearance for dumping brass. The .38s would have two rounds kind of bump the grips and still required manual extraction. The .357s absolutely would not clear it period. It required rotating the cylinder (which wasn't easy, since they were already wedged against the grip) in order to clear those two rounds. These are beautiful grips. I suppose, given their scarcity, they're even collectors' items - for that reason I'm not going to try and bugger them up to suit my needs. They probably work quite nicely for some folks, but not for me. They will be going back on eBay for some other person. I can't afford collectors' items.

Just to be fair, I gave the Fitz grips one more try with a cylinder-full of each in rapid fire. All I can say is it's good to have an excuse for poor marksmanship. I didn't even do good enough to figure what I was doing wrong. Again, I'm not slamming Fitz grips. They just don't work for me.

I switched back to the rubber grips for the balance of my shooting. The .38s weren't bad with little boot grips, but the .357s were a bit on the "snappy" side. Double action pull on the 60 is pretty heavy - I don't have a gauge, but I'd guess from 8 to 12#. However, it's quite smooth and consistent all the way through the pull. Single action let off is a dream. You can almost wish the hammer drop. This may be too light for some, but if I'm doing single action I've already pretty much made a firm commitment to shoot, so it suits me fine (and it still doesn't go "bang" unless I press the trigger). The full barrel underlug contributes to controlling muzzle flip. In fact, I really didn't experience any. All felt recoil was nearly straight back.

My rapid fire work was a disappointment. It has been far too long since I did any serious revolver shooting. I am guessing it'll be several weeks before I really need to worry about a holster for this thing. Current plan is to try and dump a hundred rounds or so downrange every week until I develop some proficiency with it. I'm also going to run at least 500 rounds through it before I think about an action job or any spring replacements. (Not ruling either out, just gonna hold off for now.)

Conclusion

My Model 60 is everything I'd hoped for. It will, I believe, become my carry piece of choice. Unfortunately, I have some work to do first. Practice, practice, practice. I'm leaning toward just sticking with the rubber grips, although I may play with the little boot grips a little more, since I seemed to do just as well with them as the others. For any type of realistic concealment in a revolver, I really think we're sort of limited to the little J-frames (and their like). Some would opine that at 23 oz. unloaded I could do quite a bit better in a carry package. I can't argue that. The revolver is a personal preference for me. And five rounds of .357 (oh, say something in a 180-gr SXT) really should go a long way toward defusing any unpleasant social encounters I might experience.

[TunnelRat]

NavyChief:
Targets were 8½x11 sheets of paper with a 2" blue-grey hexagon printed from PowerPoint.

If you use black construction paper instead of white typing paper, it's more "tactical"...

Ammunition was a box each of .38 130-gr FMJ from Bob's Ammo Box, and .357 125-gr JHP from Georgia Arms.

You might want to go easy on the 125 grain ammo. Smith & Wesson has warned against using much of it. For whatever reason the 125g and the 110g .357 magnum stuff tends to eat up the forcing cone in S&W revolvers. The factory recommends not shooting the light .357's more than about 1 out of 9 rounds.

Grips used were S&W wood boot grips (off my wife's Model 642), the S&W rubber finger-groove grips that came with, and a set of Fitz Gunfighter grips.

Boot grips on a Model 60 don't seem to offer much help with recoil, but they make for remarkable concealability. What a wonderful little pistol: compact and accurate. It's a sculptured metal beauty with just enough whack to get the job done. Congratulations on your "dream" come true.

[Willy P]

I picked up a NIB Lady Smith for the wife this past weekend and we went for a range date with it. NICE little gun!!! She is having some trouble with it but I love the little thing. I tried to convice her she needs to stick with Tom's old 686+ but she wanted another "little" gun. I may need to take the beautiful wood grips off and get her something like a set of Decelerators or Hogues for it. The little wood grips do make your shirt "float" over them and the gun hides extremely well and easily though.

[NavyChief]

Model 60 Follow-up Report

Got to the range with my new "toy" again today. For today's session I concentrated strictly on basic marksmanship skills. All firing was done at about seven yards, as usual, and all was double-action. With the exception of the last ten rounds, everything was slow fire. Ammo was Winchester "White Box" .38Spl 130-gr FMJ Target/Range 100-ct box from WallyWorld ($17.94 w/ tax out the door). I also didn't try anything fancy with grips. For now I'm just going to stick with the rubber three-finger groove combat grips S&W supplied with it. For targets I used the "Correction Target" MySQLQuery was kind enough to post that I printed from uLead PhotoImpact on standard 8½x11 paper (after adding a 1¼" red dot in the middle for contrast to help these old eyes). I also thought ahead and took my "shooting glove" with me today, which greatly aided in control. (A note about my shooting glove - all it is is a cheap golf glove I found at Sports Authority on the clearance table. Works great and didn't cost much. I imagine if I were shooting hundreds of heavy caliber rounds a week I'd spend the extra money for a bona-fide shooting glove - but for most purposes that's not really necessary.)

I'm happy to say I'm getting better. I used one target per cylinder so I could concentrate on what I might be doing wrong. Curious thing. I was able to put six targets on the back board at a time - two wide and three high. The lower the target, the tighter my group. I'm sure there's an explanation for this, but I have no idea what it might be. (Perhaps I'm anticipating recoil, and aiming low puts the muzzle down where my subconscious wants it to be anyhow? I dunno.)

Anyhow, about half my targets ended up with three rounds or better printed "in the black" (OK, grey actually) with several in my red center bull. Overall rather tickled. Before you know it I may be good enough to take lessons. All rounds were at least printed within the larger circle.

The only disappointment was my rapid fire with the last two targets. By rapid fire I mean as fast as I could squeeze off the rounds after re-acquiring a flash sight picture. On one I printed two in the grey, two low, and one - ??? - no idea. The other was even worse - one in the grey, one low, one left, and one low and left - fifth round - ???

I love this little Model 60. It is capable of so much more than I am. I look forward to the day I'm comfortable enough with it to carry regularly.

[Petrovich]

Model 60 Follow-up Report

Got to the range with my new "toy" again today. For today's session I concentrated strictly on basic marksmanship skills. All firing was done at about seven yards, as usual, and all was double-action. With the exception of the last ten rounds, everything was slow fire. Ammo was Winchester "White Box" .38Spl 130-gr FMJ Target/Range 100-ct box from WallyWorld ($17.94 w/ tax out the door). I also didn't try anything fancy with grips. For now I'm just going to stick with the rubber three-finger groove combat grips S&W supplied with it. For targets I used the "Correction Target" MySQLQuery was kind enough to post that I printed from uLead PhotoImpact on standard 8½x11 paper (after adding a 1¼" red dot in the middle for contrast to help these old eyes). I also thought ahead and took my "shooting glove" with me today, which greatly aided in control. (A note about my shooting glove - all it is is a cheap golf glove I found at Sports Authority on the clearance table. Works great and didn't cost much. I imagine if I were shooting hundreds of heavy caliber rounds a week I'd spend the extra money for a bona-fide shooting glove - but for most purposes that's not really necessary.)

I'm happy to say I'm getting better. I used one target per cylinder so I could concentrate on what I might be doing wrong. Curious thing. I was able to put six targets on the back board at a time - two wide and three high. The lower the target, the tighter my group. I'm sure there's an explanation for this, but I have no idea what it might be. (Perhaps I'm anticipating recoil, and aiming low puts the muzzle down where my subconscious wants it to be anyhow? I dunno.)

Anyhow, about half my targets ended up with three rounds or better printed "in the black" (OK, grey actually) with several in my red center bull. Overall rather tickled. Before you know it I may be good enough to take lessons. All rounds were at least printed within the larger circle.

The only disappointment was my rapid fire with the last two targets. By rapid fire I mean as fast as I could squeeze off the rounds after re-acquiring a flash sight picture. On one I printed two in the grey, two low, and one - ??? - no idea. The other was even worse - one in the grey, one low, one left, and one low and left - fifth round - ???

I love this little Model 60. It is capable of so much more than I am. I look forward to the day I'm comfortable enough with it to carry regularly.

It's a great little gun, chief. It passed my 'accuracy test' hands down when I bought it. The only thing is that it doesn't do anything a semi can't do better.

[TunnelRat]

It's a great little gun, chief. It passed my 'accuracy test' hands down when I bought it. The only thing is that it doesn't do anything a semi can't do better.

Except that it can shoot significantly heavier bullets at a significantly higher velocities than can a semi of similar size and weight.

[NavyChief]

Aside from the point Tom made: a) I'm simply more accurate with a revolver, and; b) in my mind at least, there is a certain elegance about a revolver that even the finest bottom feeder can never hope to approach.

(Oh, one other thing. The Model 60, of course, is simply the stainless version of what? Oh, that's right - the "Chief's Special." It only makes sense that I'd have to have one. )

[NavyChief]

Except that it can shoot significantly heavier bullets at a significantly higher velocities than can a semi of similar size and weight.

The round I'm looking at for carry pushes a 180-gr bullet at 1180fps for 557 ft/lbs out the muzzle...

[Petrovich]

It's a great little gun, chief. It passed my 'accuracy test' hands down when I bought it. The only thing is that it doesn't do anything a semi can't do better.

Except that it can shoot significantly heavier bullets at a significantly higher velocities than can a semi of similar size and weight.

At the price of one heck of a muzzle blast and recoil.

Magnum loads out of those things is way over the top IMO. Also, don't trust the ballistic data on the box. It is in no way duplicated in a two inch snubby. Not that it still isn't smokin'.

[NavyChief]

Two points - One, at 3", I'm not sure my 60 counts as a snubby - I'm not sure what it counts as... Two, Stephen Camp did some home-grown research on snubby .38 v. .357 and found that indeed, there were gains to be had with the .357.

The notion that the .357 is so inefficient in the two-inch guns that it's no more effective than a hot .38 Special just doesn't seem to be true. While neither is at its best in the snub, the magnum is the more potent of the two with most ammo.

To be fair, he also says he'll take his .357 in a K-frame or better, thank you very much.
.38 Snub Vs. .357 Snub

[Petrovich]

Two points - One, at 3", I'm not sure my 60 counts as a snubby - I'm not sure what it counts as... Two, Stephen Camp did some home-grown research on snubby .38 v. .357 and found that indeed, there were gains to be had with the .357.

The notion that the .357 is so inefficient in the two-inch guns that it's no more effective than a hot .38 Special just doesn't seem to be true. While neither is at its best in the snub, the magnum is the more potent of the two with most ammo.

To be fair, he also says he'll take his .357 in a K-frame or better, thank you very much.
.38 Snub Vs. .357 Snub

I won't doubt that for a minute Chief!!

Those puppies are one barking dog on a short leash!! Woo Hoo....light one off and you you knowuddimean.

I'm just wondering if the limitations aren't too much.

I like my little model 60. I also like my mod 10 snubby. That's the one I sent back to the armory for a compete redo...It's one of my favorite pieces.

Would I carry either one? Not unless I couldn't have my druthers.

[NavyChief]

I dunno. My session last Saturday included the box of .357 125-grainers. Recoil was certainly "snappy", but with the rubber grips was not overly punishing. Muzzle flash wasn't bad with the exception of three rounds that may have been loaded just a little hotter or sumthin' though I don't recall any signifcant difference in felt recoil. I believe (although I'm not smart enough to know for sure), that the full underlug is helping tame the recoil, while the 3" barrel is helping with recoil and muzzle flash.

[Carl Phipps]

I have a mod 60 3'' bbl also.I'd be interested in what holster you end up with.I tried a few and now have a Don Hume #721.Since the front site is higher than the 2'' mod the front site "dugs in'' when you pull it out of some holsters.I have other autos and wheel guns but this is my favorite carry gun.

[sbc350gearhead]

I currently carry 135 grain gold dots in my 2 1/4 inch sp101. They move at a little over 1000 feet per second from the gun. They are much more controllable than 180 grain partitions. I didn't chonograph the partitions, but I would imagine that 1000 fps would be close to correct for my ruger.......you will probably get a little more from a 3 inch barrel.

[NavyChief]

I tried a few and now have a Don Hume #721.

Thanks. Don Hume is one I've been looking at - if for no other reason than price. They seem to run about a third to half what most others charge for what at least appears to be comparable holsters. (Although I'll be looking for an IWB.)