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Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.
Mustang380gal wrote:OK, so the law says I can't touch it until LEO tells me to.
This really is unenforceable unless passing LE have x-ray vision, but is one of those things that can sneak up and bite you.
It's also kind of funny because enforcement means that they have to see the gun, which assumes "plain sight".... (A credible witness might also work, but then it's "he said, she said"....)
Do they honestly mean to charge someone who has to use the gun to protect his life with a felony because he had to touch the gun to use it?
I doubt if even the most anal OSP guy would have the guts to go into court with that, but the politidiots probably didn't understand it. It definitely appears that if you don't have your cellphone in hand that it's a bad idea....
Politicians are less sensible than I gave them credit for, which wasn't much to begin with.
Don't forget that much of HB12 was crafted to get us or our family members killed, or at least jailed.
HB347, as written, will fix some of this. We also need a "Castle Doctrine" like just applied in FL. I would love to see one of these politicians try to dial 911, drive a car out of "trouble", and get a gun out of their locked glovebox at the same time. They just don't seem to understand that somebody, anybody might want to.
Regards,
Stu.
(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)
(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)
There is some precedent in a case of a Female police officer of some kind that was OFF DUTY, in plainclothes, in a personal vehicle, La Polica got a call that she brandished a weapon at somebody during a road rage incident. Anyway they chase her down and pull her over, find the gun locked in the glovebox, after investigation no charges were filed.
No explanation was apparently needed for why the accuser would even know she had a firearm if it was locked up the whole time.
Many vehicles you can LOCK the glovebox door in the open position, then slam it closed and it will latch and lock quite nicely.
Mustang380gal wrote:OK, so the law says I can't touch it until LEO tells me to.
Do they honestly mean to charge someone who has to use the gun to protect his life with a felony because he had to touch the gun to use it?
Politicians are less sensible than I gave them credit for, which wasn't much to begin with.
Does HB347 change this?
Linda
Yes, HB 347 fixes this.
Does it completely? I have to admit I haven't memorized HB 347 as proposed, but I think it creates an affirmative defense for discharging a firearm, but it still doesn't address the felony necessary to have contact with it. Good thing I've got psychokinetic capabilities!
you all know that i told her that the gun is for looks and trix are for kids,that you are not actually supposed to use it. it's like buying a truck just to sit in your driveway. just kidding, i know she took a chance, but the alternative senario was not an option. bottomline is the BG left and my wife is fine the LEO weren't there to protect her, but smith & wesson was with their 5 friends.
djthomas wrote:
1) Your wife just committed a felony by having hand contact with her firearm while the vehicle was in operation on a public street.
It is only a felony if you attempt to or have contact with your weapon in the presence of an LEO. Driving and touching the weapon while in the car is not a felony.
Exactly. that's what i was trying to get at and you finally hit the nail on the head. i didn't think this would spark such a response. some are WAY off and others are right on the mark. thats what ccw is for,protection.
I know Youngstown has a rep for being a rough town. That being said, sounds like your wife had a fear for her life as no person in their right mind would jump out of their car and bang on your window for her stopping at a red light. As far as I am concerned, she was moving it to plain sight and he happened to be there at that exact moment.
Berlin Kid wrote:...It is only a felony if you attempt to or have contact with your weapon in the presence of an LEO. Driving and touching the weapon while in the car is not a felony...
It is a felony to do so "while operating" the vehicle AND while in the presence of a LEO.
If your instructor told you otherwise, you ought to get your money back and study the law more diligently. You are 100% wrong.
Read 2923.16 carefully.
BB62
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
If someone attacks you while you are in your car, you don't have to sit there and suffer death and dismemberment in order not to touch your gun. Saying otherwise is [Expletive Deleted -- TR]. You can use your gun. The part of the law on how to carry applies only while you are not threatened. The part of Ohio law about defending yourself applies when you are threatened.
That is settled law. There have already been cases where people with licenses defended themselves in cars and were NOT prosecuted for touching their gun.
This woman did pretty good. Some could alledge she committed a felony but that would be up to a jury to decide, not us. A DA can prosecute a ham sandwich. A DA can take you to a grand jury over any alledged violation of anything. Sometimes they do!
She was in no position to retreat if pulling into an intersection at a red light or maneuvering her vehicle could get her hit by another car. She may have been effectively 'at the wall'.
As far as calling for help at 911, yes, that is a good idea but not a requirement. It is last on the order of things to do
Berlin Kid wrote:...It is only a felony if you attempt to or have contact with your weapon in the presence of an LEO. Driving and touching the weapon while in the car is not a felony...
It is a felony to do so "while operating" the vehicle AND while in the presence of a LEO.
If your instructor told you otherwise, you ought to get your money back and study the law more diligently. You are 100% wrong.
Read 2923.16 carefully.
BB62
I have read 2923.16 carefully and nowhere does it address touching or attempting to have contact with the weapon while operating a vehicle. The law is very specific regarding an encounter with an LEO. Please see the bold emphasis below. Please point me to the section that supports your position.
Sec. 2923.126.
(A) If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, shall remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, and shall keep the licensee's hands in plain sight while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly remove, attempt to remove, grasp, or hold the loaded handgun or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code, while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves. If a law enforcement officer otherwise approaches a person who has been stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is a licensee, and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform the officer that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun.
(E) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 [2923.12.5] or 2923.1213 [2923.12.13] of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:
(1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or it is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked;
(2) If the person is transporting or has a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle in a manner authorized under division (E)(1) of this section, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, glove compartment, or case, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers while the motor vehicle is being operated on a street, highway, or public property unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has the contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;
(3) If the person is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the person is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle in any manner, fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle.
(4) If the person is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the person is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle in any manner, knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, or knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless, regarding a failure to remain in the motor vehicle or to keep the person's hands in plain sight, the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;
(5) If the person is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose, if the person is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle in a manner authorized under division (E)(1) of this section, and if the person is approached by any law enforcement officer while stopped, knowingly remove or attempt to remove the loaded handgun from the holster, glove compartment, or case, knowingly grasp or hold the loaded handgun, or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person removes, attempts to remove, grasps, holds, or has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer.
Then in (I):
(I) Whoever violates this section is guilty of improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle. Violation of division (A) of this section is a felony of the fourth degree. Violation of division (C) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. A violation of division (D) of this section is a felony of the fifth degree. A violation of division (E)(3) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. A violation of division (E)(1), (2), or (5) of this section is a felony of the fifth degree. A violation of division (E)(4) of this section is a misdemeanor of the first degree or, if the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a violation of division (E)(4) of this section, a felony of the fifth degree. A violation of division (B) of this section is whichever of the following is applicable:
You're right. I stand corrected. I believe I blanked that section out as being so ridiculous that it couldn't be correct and I was reading it wrong. What the heck were they thinking when they wrote that piece of .....?
So, by a strict definition of this, if you are in the car in your driveway, even if it is not running and you do the "Buckeye Tuck" you have committed a felony. I say this because people have been charged with drunk driving when they have been found asleep in the car and their keys are in the car and not even in the ignition but merely on their person.
Wow, feel like a facilitor keeping this conversation going, but all i wanted to convey was if it wasn't for her going to get her ccw,with me, she would never have been able to defend herself because i sure wasn't there to protect her. i thought this would be a good story for more women to want to get their ccw to protect themselves. But wow what a difference of opinions. My wife read these posts and all she said is nobody else was there or wiling to do anything. Crashing the red light, breaking the law, speeding away,breaking the law or worse getting t-boned at intersection and winding up dead, not a good option. Defending yourself,staying safe and able to return home,PRICELESS.
