Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devices

Discussion of Firearm Politics & Legislation. This forum is now strictly limited to discussions directly related to firearms.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Locked
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

The appeal by the Plaintiffs against the BATFE in the bump stock ruling has been expedited. The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has ordered the parties to submit briefs by March 4th of 2019. That is extraordinarily fast by U.S. appeals court standards.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Olson consistently made the point that the ATF did NOT deserve deference … that the agency was misapplying the federal statute regarding bump stocks … and, more importantly, that the ATF was effectively changing the statutory definition of what a machine gun is.

This argument seemed to resonate with the judge, who appeared unwilling to grant deference to the ATF.

SNIP

The judge asked GOA’s counsel if a bump stock allows an uninterrupted automatic cycle of fire — as a machine gun would. Olson said NO. He explained that a bump stock allows for repeated SEMI-automatic fire in a rapid manner, where each function of the trigger produces one bullet out the end of the barrel — albeit occurring in rapid, repeated succession.

The government took the contrary view, claiming that a bump stock starts in motion a continuous chain of successive fire.

More to the point, Olson noted that while an untrained shooter could fire an automatic weapon with one hand — by simply pulling the trigger back — no person could repeatedly bump fire a semi-automatic weapon with just one hand.

Even the ATF has had to concede in its written regulation that bump firing a weapon requires the shooter to use both hands.

SNIP

ATF officials are well-known for changing their positions “on a dime.” And they are guilty of doing this in regard to their position on bump stocks. In court, the government claimed their prior opinions approving possession of bump stocks in the past were correct based on what they knew, but now they are “not the best understanding” of the law.

And this led to another “mic drop” moment, when the judge called them out on their past behavior.

The judge dryly wondered, out loud, why he should believe the ATF’s position today.

The ATF claims that judges like him must adopt the agency’s current interpretation on bump stocks. But ten years ago, the judge noted, the ATF was arguing the complete opposite, claiming that bump stocks were totally legal under federal law. It was a great point. And we can only hope the judge will take this point to heart — that it’s ATF’s arbitrary interpretations that have changed over the years, and not federal law.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

We had hoped to get a decision by last week. But since we have not, GOA today filed an emergency petition and motion in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.

In it, we are asking the Court of Appeals to order the district court to halt ATF’s regulation until the court issues its decision on our pending motion.

Also, we separately asked the Court of Appeals to stay the regulation until any appeal is heard — a stay that could hopefully last weeks or months while we make our case as to why the ATF ban is illegal.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
WhyNot
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:23 am
Location: NW Ohio

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by WhyNot »

Yes

I could see what happens as...AFTER the effective date (next Tues.) the court decides....alas, people have'' turned 'em all in'' // or destroyed the items
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Any gun owner who possesses a bump stock accessory for their gun is now in violation of federal law.

Despite numerous lawsuits attempting to block the bump stock ban since it was implemented in December 2018, the 90-day period to turn in or destroy the accessories has ended, making their possession illegal under federal law as of March 26, according to the new Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) rule.

An estimated 500,000 bump stock accessories owned by Americans are now illegal, CNBC reported.

SNIP

“We still feel that the regulation is a factual misreading of the statute, and that ultimately we will be vindicated on it,” Michael Hammond, the legislative counsel for Gun Owners of America, told CNBC. The group is one of several to sue the federal government over the ban.

SNIP

Hammond said the ban is “sort of weird in that it’s saying that a piece of plastic is a ‘machine gun.’ I think the court also needs to take into consideration that if the piece of plastic is a machine gun, the AR-15 is also a machine gun.”
Our self-appointed "Champion" has failed us, ladies and gentlemen:
At the NRA's annual convention in April 2017, Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, called Trump "the most proudly pro-gun presidential candidate" in U.S. history. "I am going to come through for you," Trump told the attendees. "You have a true friend and champion in the White House."
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
WhyNot
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:23 am
Location: NW Ohio

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by WhyNot »

No, not true and, in large part.

The last of last minute paperwork is the details, as I posted a link to the details before...

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=93104" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't have a dog in the fight save the degradation of our collective 2A rights which is ALWAYS greater a concern then the flavour dujour whether ARs, mag limits, shotgun kinda-guns, ERPeeOd's or bumpers.

Those who were following the whole debacle knew there would be last minute-seconds details. Leastways I hope.Can't shepherd everyone on a nation wide level, it was the individual's responsibility to ''stay informed.'' Just wanted to get info out!
Acquisitions thus far:

-Slingshot
-Butter knife
-Soda straw and peas
-Sharpened pencil
-Newspaper roll
--water balloon (*diversionary*)

Yeah, I'm that good
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Some points about that:

The stay order referred to ‘current’ members. That may limit it to those were already members at the time the order was issued. Frankly, the court would have to clarify that.
There is some case law that limits groups extending memberships. If you had donated/joined prior to this, you may be covered. But still don’t count on it.
Whether a member or not Firearms Policy Coalition is working their asses off on your behalf. Donate. They’re trying to protect you, member or not.

SNIP

And if the VNRA asks your help… just remember those bastards caused this.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

This is horrible. And this is what modern gun confiscation looks like. Let me break down for you what has happened:

1. The President signs an executive order directing a government agency to re-define an item (notwithstanding that that agency has consistently upheld another definition repeatedly for years).

2. The agency writes a new rule re-defining that item to be included in a group of banned items.

3. Anyone currently legally owning that item who has not turned it in to the federal government (without receiving any compensation) will be committing a federal felony offense.

SNIP

Let me boil this down for you.

When (not if — but when) you are banned from owning or using the firearm, ammunition, or accessory that you do own, you’ll be faced with a choice that probably will boil down to one of these two basic options:

1. Don’t give it up. Do the “Come And Take It” and “Line In The Sand” and “Don’t Tread On Me” and “From My Cold Dead Hands” thing — and maybe go to federal prison for a decade or more. Maybe get shot. Maybe watch your family get shot, too.

2. Give it up. Decide that your life and your family’s lives aren’t worth risking just so you can hold onto your safety tools [guns]. And when you give it up, you’ll be giving up the tool that was up as a last line of defense against a tyrannical government.

What choice would you make?

Do you see how vile this choice is?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Scheduled to be published on March 14th, newly appointed U.S. Attorney General William Barr will ratify a final rule from the ATF that determined bump stocks to be a “machine gun”.

This reaffirmation is in response to a federal lawsuit challenging then acting Attorney General Whitaker’s unconstitutional appointment to the position, who originally ratified the final rule.
If Barr has to sign it again to shut down arguments over the validity, it has to be republished in the Register again, now that it has finally been “properly” signed.

And that resets the countdown clock.

So publish it, as now scheduled on March 14, 2019, and start the new 90 day countdown, with a new deadline of June 13, 2019. In accordance with the Administrative Procedures Act.
Don't worry...all the news is about the Mueller Investigation...this bump stock thing is simple background tinfoil.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
steves 50de
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:26 pm
Location: n.e. ohio
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by steves 50de »

bignflnut wrote:
This is horrible. And this is what modern gun confiscation looks like. Let me break down for you what has happened:

1. The President signs an executive order directing a government agency to re-define an item (notwithstanding that that agency has consistently upheld another definition repeatedly for years).

2. The agency writes a new rule re-defining that item to be included in a group of banned items.

3. Anyone currently legally owning that item who has not turned it in to the federal government (without receiving any compensation) will be committing a federal felony offense.

SNIP

Let me boil this down for you.

When (not if — but when) you are banned from owning or using the firearm, ammunition, or accessory that you do own, you’ll be faced with a choice that probably will boil down to one of these two basic options:

1. Don’t give it up. Do the “Come And Take It” and “Line In The Sand” and “Don’t Tread On Me” and “From My Cold Dead Hands” thing — and maybe go to federal prison for a decade or more. Maybe get shot. Maybe watch your family get shot, too.

2. Give it up. Decide that your life and your family’s lives aren’t worth risking just so you can hold onto your safety tools [guns]. And when you give it up, you’ll be giving up the tool that was up as a last line of defense against a tyrannical government.

What choice would you make?

Do you see how vile this choice is?

Number 1 for me,..... I'am fine with the 3 percent club. :wink:
Black Rifles Matter
M-Quigley
Posts: 4782
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by M-Quigley »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/suprem ... -stock-ban" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(bolded and underlining in quote is added)
WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court is so far declining to stop the Trump administration from enforcing its ban on bump stock devices, which allow semi-automatic weapons to fire like machine guns.

The ban took effect Tuesday. The administration is in the unusual position of arguing against gun rights groups. Gun rights groups asked the court Monday to keep the government from beginning to enforce the ban for now. Chief Justice John Roberts declined a request for the court to get involved Tuesday. A second request is pending in front of Justice Sonia Sotomayor.
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

4/1/2019 UPDATE 1: The D.C. Circuit has ruled 2-1 against the Guedes et al. appellants, with a strong dissent by Judge Henderson. Opinion here. We will post updates and developments here.
Chevron Deference (aka, Nanny State knows best)
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

The nationwide ban officially went into effect March 26. Since then, local law enforcement agencies are not seeing gun owners surrender their bump stock weapon attachments, even though it’s now a felony to own one. Officials from the Toledo Police Department and the Lucas and Wood county sheriff’s offices told The Blade they’re not aware of any bump stocks turned in to their offices.

And whether anyone in Michigan or Ohio has turned in a bump stock to federal law enforcement is unclear. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Ohio and Michigan are not recording numbers.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
User avatar
WY_Not
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 2435
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Miami County, OH
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by WY_Not »

Good news indeed. Molon labe.
bignflnut wrote:
The nationwide ban officially went into effect March 26. Since then, local law enforcement agencies are not seeing gun owners surrender their bump stock weapon attachments, even though it’s now a felony to own one. Officials from the Toledo Police Department and the Lucas and Wood county sheriff’s offices told The Blade they’re not aware of any bump stocks turned in to their offices.

And whether anyone in Michigan or Ohio has turned in a bump stock to federal law enforcement is unclear. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Ohio and Michigan are not recording numbers.
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.
Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

What’s more, they argued, the bump-stock ban expands the ATF’s authority to bring more firearms into the NFA’s purview, placing an un-knowable number of gun owners in criminal peril.

“In effect, there is now a Damoclean sword over law-abiding Americans,” explained Cato and FPC in the brief. “What was legal yesterday can be illegal tomorrow.” In other words, this case extends far beyond just bump stocks, and has the potential to affect the future legality of just about anything protected by the Second Amendment.

“Despite having countless opportunities to do so in multiple cases, the government has failed to provide a competent defense of their rule making,” explained Cato’s Matthew Larosiere. “The idea of an unelected bureaucrat deciding what can and cannot land you in federal prison ought to give anyone pause, regardless of how you feel about bump stocks. We hope the Tenth Circuit calls the government on its casual disregard for the Constitution and reigns in this alarming expansion of the administrative state.”

“The ATF had no authority to arbitrarily re-interpret the machinegun statute to achieve the President’s desired policy outcome,” said FPC President Brandon Combs. “Worse, the government’s position that it is ‘ending its exercise of discretion’ means that they believe they can not only reclassify guns and accessories, but they can put people in prison whenever they do so. That is as egregiously wrong as it is dangerous. FPC has been and remains staunchly committed to fighting the unconstitutional expansion of gun control laws by fiat.”
In a way, there should be no Trump Slump...we should be buying like our lives depended on it...
First, they came for the bump stocks...
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Locked