Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devices

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Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devices

Post by bignflnut »

Perhaps needing a distraction from the fiscal folly of today's $1.3 trillion monster spending bill... or perhaps looking to show progress ahead of tomorrow's expected-to-be-huge "march For Life" across America, President Trump has swung his Oval Office ax at another Obama-era law and followed through on his promise to ban bump stocks.

SNIP

WASHINGTON - Today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the Department of Justice is proposing to amend the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of "machinegun" under federal law, as such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger.

In making the announcement, Attorney General Sessions made the following statement:

"Since the day he took office, President Trump has had no higher priority than the safety of each and every American," said Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

"That is why today the Department of Justice is publishing for public comment a proposed rulemaking that would define `machinegun' to include bump stock-type devices under federal law - effectively banning them. After the senseless attack in Las Vegas, this proposed rule is a critical step in our effort to reduce the threat of gun violence that is in keeping with the Constitution and the laws passed by Congress. I look forward to working with the President's School Safety Commission to identify other ways to keep our country and our children safe, and I thank the President for his courageous leadership on this issue."

On February 20, 2018, the President issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General "to dedicate all available resources to... propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns." This NPRM is in response to that direction, and would make clear that the term "machinegun" as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic long gun after a single pull of the trigger. If the NPRM is made final, bump-stock-type devices would be effectively banned under federal law and current possessors of bump-stock-type devices would be required to surrender, destroy, or otherwise render the devices permanently inoperable.

The comment period for the NPRM is 90 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.
Say goodbye to the Trump Slump...the GOP lost 2018 and the foreseeable future today. Earned it they have.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by propertymanager »

Today was perhaps the largest mass political suicide ever seen. The "Republicans" are about to be thrown our of office for a generation and they will absolutely deserve it. While I'm not a bit surprised that Rinos like Portman, Kasich, McConnell, Ryan, and their ilk have betrayed the American people, I am surprised and extremely disappointed that Trump betrayed us also. Trump isn't going to have to worry about re-election in 2020, he's going to be impeached and thrown out of office in 2019.

Trump - what a disappointment!
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by ArmedAviator »

So are bump stocks now going to become registered machine guns? If so, people have some serious investments now. I see no reason why once installed on an AR, 3-hole the AR which is already configured as a machine gun and install full auto components.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by qmti »

propertymanager wrote:Today was perhaps the largest mass political suicide ever seen. The "Republicans" are about to be thrown our of office for a generation and they will absolutely deserve it. While I'm not a bit surprised that Rinos like Portman, Kasich, McConnell, Ryan, and their ilk have betrayed the American people, I am surprised and extremely disappointed that Trump betrayed us also. Trump isn't going to have to worry about re-election in 2020, he's going to be impeached and thrown out of office in 2019.

Trump - what a disappointment!
Yes, what a disappointment. And since the multi page budget has not been thoroughly read, who knows what is hidden in it that will come back to haunt the Republicans.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by evan price »

ArmedAviator wrote:So are bump stocks now going to become registered machine guns? If so, people have some serious investments now. I see no reason why once installed on an AR, 3-hole the AR which is already configured as a machine gun and install full auto components.
Except, the nfa transfer registry is closed and no new machine guns can be made... which makes bump stocks contraband.
It's the Akins Accelerator all over again.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by ArmedAviator »

I hope there shall be nearly 100% non-compliance with this ban. If you have it, keep it.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by Glock Rock »

All the new Trump naysayers - enjoy leftist rule as you sit out the next elections. Can’t wait to read your complaints here In a few years.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by propertymanager »

We just had 8 years of leftist rule and even the Obama disaster wasn't as damaging to the 2nd Amendment as Trump. Why vote in Republicans when they are worse than the Dems???
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by JustaShooter »

propertymanager wrote:We just had 8 years of leftist rule and even the Obama disaster wasn't as damaging to the 2nd Amendment as Trump. Why vote in Republicans when they are worse than the Dems???
I'm sorry, what has Trump done that is more damaging to the 2A than Obama? I get he's asked the ATF to ban bump stocks but I doubt that will fly - and Obama asked them to review bumpstocks *twice*.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Glock Rock wrote:All the new Trump naysayers - enjoy leftist rule as you sit out the next elections. Can’t wait to read your complaints here In a few years.
Oh, I'm an Old School Trump naysayer...one of those people who said "Character Matters" in the 90s and still declares such today.

My "complaint" if you wish, "argument" if I might use that term, is that we have one party who rather transparently desires to confiscate firearms from the citizen yet pro RKBA people insist on voting for candidates / a party who campaign on being pro RKBA then routinely sells us out because they have no Character, no principles.

To address JustaShooter, Trump has given cover to the NRA and GOP candidates/officials who would otherwise uphold the fiction that they are pro RKBA and encouraged FIX NICS:
Secondarily,this bill violates core ideals of the Republican Party by expanding gun control and keeping in place many liberal big government priorities. The so-called “Fix NICS” bill is gun control plain and simple. In typical D.C. fashion, politicians want to do something to feel better, but the solution doesn’t solve the problem. According to Gun Owners of America, “The dirty little secret of NICS is that hundreds of thousands of people in the database are law-abiding Americans who did nothing wrong, unless you count ‘service to your country’ and/or ‘speeding.’” The essential problem with Fix NICS is that it does not provide sufficient due process protections. Rep. Massie spoke in the House Rules Committee last night of an elderly veteran who lost his gun rights because he allows his wife to manage his finances and was declared incompetent by a government bureaucrat. Republicans would turn off their base this fall if they trumpeted that they expanded gun control and brought the country one step closer to closing gun shows and banning so-called assault weapons.
Perhaps I should just agree with your point, both the current and previous office holders have excited and energized the pro RKBA people against government confiscation of weapons.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by M-Quigley »

JustaShooter wrote:
propertymanager wrote:We just had 8 years of leftist rule and even the Obama disaster wasn't as damaging to the 2nd Amendment as Trump. Why vote in Republicans when they are worse than the Dems???
I'm sorry, what has Trump done that is more damaging to the 2A than Obama? I get he's asked the ATF to ban bump stocks but I doubt that will fly - and Obama asked them to review bumpstocks *twice*.
Since Obama was term limited, he didn't run in 2016 anyway, Hillary did. Although Obama was anti gun, he never ran on that platform, and expressed had his strongest anti gun sentiments said or done after his re election. Hillary actually ran on an anti gun platform, had a litmus test for SCOTUS candidates in the mold of RBG, and was vowing to go much farther than Obama did on gun control. Those were the choices in 2016, Hillary vs. Trump, not Obama vs. Trump.

I guess my opinion of Trump was never that high in the beginning, so I can't say I'm as disappointed as some who actually bought into all the stuff he said at the rallies. I was never one that thought that Trump would have tried to keep any of the promises he made, because my feeling in 2016 was that he just wanted to be president to stroke his own ego. I hoped though that if elected he would at least nominate a SCOTUS justice who thought the actual BOR merely meant whatever that particular justice wanted it to mean, instead of what it actually says. Trump kept his word on that. Trump has still indicated he will sign the HPA and reciprocity if it ever gets to his desk, but the fault for that lies with the Senate. Actually a lot of what Trump hasn't been able to do r/t campaign promises is because the president is not a king who can just do whatever he or she wants, (thank goodness) and it's the legislative branch that actually creates most laws. Many people seem to forget that.

The Parkland school shooting would've still happened if Hillary had been president. Can you imagine what she would've said and done as compared to Trump? She wouldn't just be talking about or placing restrictions on bump stocks. Although there were things I didn't like about Trump in 2016 (and some things I still don't like) I can't honestly say however that in terms of gun issues there would've been no difference in him versus his opponent.
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

On Friday, March 23, 2018, Attorney General Sessions announced that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is set to publish proposed rulemaking to classify bump-stocks as machineguns. The Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) has not yet been published in the Federal Register, but it is available on DOJ's website.

If adopted, the proposed rule will amend ATF's regulations in 27 C.F.R. Part 479 to “clarify” ATF's interpretations of the statutory terms “single function of the trigger,” “automatically,” and “machinegun” as follows:

“Single function of the trigger” will mean “single pull of the trigger.”
“Automatically” will mean “as the result of a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single pull of the trigger.”
The term “machinegun” will include a device that allows semiautomatic firearms to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter (commonly known as bump-stock-type devices.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

Let's just take this one line and destroy the logic inside it.
DOJ states that banning bump-stock-type devices will significantly enhance public safety.
False.
By this logic, DOJ advocates banning all weapons. However, there seems to be a counterargument to that logic. That counterargument is (1) Government does not exist to "enhance public safety", but to protect the Rights of the citizenry. (2) These devices pose no danger to the public, they are simply inert hunks of plastic. (3) The method of firing a semi-automatic firearm can be accomplished with or without these "devices" and a ban is therefore of no effect.

Ok...larger article...
The NPRM states that during the period 2008-2017 ATF issued classification decisions concluding that certain bump-stock-type devices were not machineguns, including a classification issued to the manufacturer of the devices used in the Las Vegas shooting. The NPRM then states as follows:

Those decisions did not include extensive legal analysis relating to the definition of “machinegun.” Nonetheless, they indicated that semiautomatic firearms modified with these bump-stock-type devices did not fire “automatically,” and were thus not “machineguns,” because the devices did not rely on internal springs or similar mechanical parts to channel recoil energy. ATF has now determined that that conclusion does not reflect the best interpretation of the term “machinegun” under the GCA and NFA. In this proposed rule, the Department accordingly interprets the definition of “machinegun” to clarify that all bump-stock-type devices are “machineguns” under the GCA and NFA because they convert a semiautomatic firearm into a firearm that shoots automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
How is a hunk of plastic a "machinegun"? I've seen piles of Legos before. Are they also "machineguns"?
Convert a semiautomatic? Single function of the trigger? Excuse me. Is reality available for comment?
Without manual reloading? Pardon me? Like...all semi-autos reload themselves?
For purposes of this definition, the term “automatically” as it modifies “shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot,” means functioning as the result of a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and “single function of the trigger” means a single pull of the trigger. The term “machinegun” includes bump-stock-type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.
So, if the shooting finger doesn't move, it's illegal? Again, this effect can be achieved with non-bump stocks. Does this outlaw all stocks?
ATF has in the past allowed possessors to register firearms that were reclassified. See ATF. Rul. 94-1, 94-2, and 2001-1, available on ATF’s website at https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulatio ... ms-rulings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Nonetheless, the NPRM states that DOJ has determined there will be no registration period for any device classified as a “machinegun” as a result of the NPRM and any final rule. The NPRM states that if the final rule adopts the proposals set forth in the notice, current possessors of regulated devices must dispose of them.
Full (auto) ex post facto law? Even if one is not interested in people's Rights to own hunks of plastic that can slide to and fro, one must be outraged by a law that goes into retroactive effect against people who had TEN rulings in their favor when they purchased the item.

==================================================
All of that aside, anyone see suppressors or reciprocity on the horizon?
Has there been this great tactical retreat so that Rights can march forward?
Shockingly there's no carrot being offered in this one. No buyback. No nothing. Just dispose of it.
If you're at the range and someone is bump firing their rifle, are you calling the cops?
Should there not be bump fire events at the local range? Marches with Lego guns or detached bump stocks to demonstrate the safety of plastic?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by bignflnut »

As we consider all that is being offered (i.e. suppressors / reciprocity) in response to banning bump stocks (which aren't clearly enumerated in any Constitution, nor is ammunition), I'm reminded of a clip of Willy Wonka
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Trump Overturns Obama-Era Law: Bans All Bump Stock Devic

Post by propertymanager »

I'm sorry, what has Trump done that is more damaging to the 2A than Obama? I get he's asked the ATF to ban bump stocks but I doubt that will fly - and Obama asked them to review bumpstocks *twice*.
Trump has set the precedent that a President can, through executive order, change the definition of any object to make it a machine gun. If he can redefine a bump stock to be a machine gun, then he can redefine a binary trigger; a trigger with a lower pull weight; or even a rubber band as a machine gun. Moreover, if he can redefine a bump stock as a machine gun, then he could certainly redefine a semiautomatic weapon as a machine gun. We all know that a semiautomatic rifle or pistol can bump fire without a bump stock, therefore a semiautomatic IS a machine gun. For that matter, he could redefine a lever action rifle as a machine gun because the lever allows it to shoot fast. This ability to redefine objects on a whim is perhaps the greatest threat to our 2A rights that have ever been seen. Obama was terrible! Trump is MUCH WORSE!

What's next? Changing the centuries old definition of marriage?
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