Licensing the cops

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Licensing the cops

Postby bignflnut » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:40 am

Image

DeWhine floated the concept that maybe it's time to license cops, since that's a "profession". Goodbye citizen sheriff?
THIS is the Administrative State run further amok. They control those they desire to control by erecting red tape, bureaucratic barriers to "license" particular commerce or activity, which then they can turn off like a switch whenever somebody steps out of line. Don't we know it? Don't we cheer it?

DeWhine salivates at licensing requirements as he is squeezing restaurants and bars, hairdressers and business-owners all over Ohio into using only 30% of their available square footage to produce income. The threat is that he can pull their licensing, cause insurance companies to drop them like a hot rock and deep six their business without a visit from a cop. What good is a civilian militia or firearms at the door of a 77 year old man's barbershop when the paperwork alone will end his business?

We're encouraging speakeasys, black market barbershops and all the like. Then where will your precious tax revenue be Herr DeWhine?

The Othering is aimed directly at the enforcers now...which is an irony that will rot many teeth.
Hopefully they will wake up to the oppression they have enforced for decades in America, but likely not. They will maintain how special they really are as #Hero. :roll: They don't play the stupid games, they say, they don't deserve the stupid prizes.

I'm all for police accountability. Nobody is going to accuse me of being a friend to corrupt badge wearing check pounders or those that cover their tracks. Liberty is the answer, however, and I don't wish the idiocy of extra training, CEs, and the threat of being drummed out of one's profession by a board of ivory tower pinheads on anyone. In fact, the recent events show what a paper tiger we have all been begging scraps from. If we could actually organize, as our friends in Virginia did, then we could roll back these punitive taxes and restrictions on our Rights.
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.” Thomas Jefferson, 1774

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams to Massachusetts Militia Oct 11, 1798
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:56 am

Yawn.....nothing new will be done..never has never will...hashing the same things over and over..Race...will be with us till a higher power directs us other wise..Sad...Nothing will change.

Getting qualified officers now will be very hard to do....it’s a problem now in a lot of departments. Can’t much blame anyone for not wanting this occupation...
We all know that the majority of officers are good...but politics come into play along with the media and paint a different picture...

My son has been a officer for over 20 years in a small quiet community and he’s fed up...

Rant over..
.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby drc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:17 am

I am going to caveat my post with: we bought a 10 pack of N95's and gave 6 to our local PD because they were not getting PPE in adequate amounts at the start of the COVID19 issue. I also gave them a big handful of gloves. I took a N95 to a LEO acquaintance up by Vermillion so he would have some protection if he needed it so he wouldn't take it home to his wife and kids. So I am hardly anti-police, only anti police corruption.

I could make a list of police corruption that I have 1st hand knowledge of. Some of it LEO's don't even recognize. A good friend of mine and my pheasant hunting partner is a retired LEO from a dept in the Greater Cleveland Suburbs area. Some of the things he told me and that is taken for granted in the LEO community just make my head spin.

1. The Spouse badge. Spouses get a "Get out of jail free card". He inadvertantly started a tit-for-tat ticket fest between 2 districts because he gave a ticket to a woman before she pulled the spouse badge. He wasn't going to risk a felony by ripping up the ticket, so it stood. He got chewed out for writing the ticket. The departments were ticketing family members of the other dept in retribution until the chiefs called a truce.

He saw it in the same vein as 2 business owner's giving each other's spouses discounts, purely a business decision. All the years on the force, being surrounded by that took a really decent man (you don't know how decent he really is) and allowed questionable practices to be acceptable. You slide into it, a little at a time.

2. At least 1 member of the force would routinely fail to get his license plate sticker for months. They would carp at him but never ticket him. That is complicity in the crime in my book, especially if you are going to ticket me for the same offense. Is not a crime a crime ? Should a cop be above the law ?

then:

3. I have seen 4 or 5 depts coming home from an event (funeral, etc) driving together, out of their jurisdiction and passing people like they are standing still. Being "above the law" does not make for good public relations. I asked the Beacon Journal to run an article and was told "what is the point". This was blasting east on Rt 59 through Stow and Silver Lake, I recognized the departments because I grew up out that way. A Ravenna cop (and others out that way) have no business doing in excess of 50mph in a 35 zone while they are all running in a convoy.

4. I saw a plain clothes car being escorted by a cruiser pass me flat out flying down I-71 NO LIGHTS just being escorted and they were OUT OF THEIR JURISDICTION. I eventually caught up to them. What were they doing ? Shopping at Fin,Feathers,Fur in Ashland. There was no emergency requiring them to be driving that fast. They were in there looking at clothes and other stuff.

5. I worked at Keybank in IT at Tiedeman. Numerous times a week I would see (either Brecksville or Broadview Heights) have an elderly Afro-American couple pulled over. They were very elderly. Why were they pulled over numerous times a week ? Could they have had the audacity to be DWB through their area and were easy to pick on ? Over 90% of the cars being pulled over in that area were Afro-Americans.

6. Cuyahoga Falls was going to make their officers work mandatory overtime which was going to be solely paid from the tickets they wrote. Luckily the Beacon Journal caught onto that.

As a side note, I had an acquaintance that used to own the Army Surplus store in Mogadore, Ohio. He quit the Cuy Falls department due to what they forced them to do to people.

7. The Munroe Falls cop that ticketed my son and let his buddy go that hit him, while my son was in my folk's driveway. We saw the cop visiting the guy, he lived on the road behind my folk's house.

8. The Munroe Falls chief that wrecked the car and was let go. "Professional courtesy". Common knowledge was a liquid substance was involved.

9. Lyndale. Need we say more. The brother of my wife's brother's wife (how is that for a statement) worked at Lyndale. He was a very cocky guy and said some things about what they were doing in their private lives that would get me put in prison.

10. My niece's husband was allowed into a police academy even though he had domestic orders against him that he couldn't be around her son. (something happened, the young boy lived with his father, something about child abuse). He had temper issues. He was granted points due to his deployment to Iraq (never left a base, never saw combat, he fixed radios inside the compounds). He road raged a woman in his academy uniform and chased her all the way to her house. He never should have been allowed in to begin with. Had he not done this (road rage) and actually made it through, we could have been reading about him.

Why was he allowed into a police academy ?

There are no easy solutions, only hard ones, but I believe they need to be taken.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:31 am

800,000 I believe in LE. Name one occupation that doesn’t have what you mention? I’m not sticking up for anyone. There is no fix for this problem of abuse.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby drc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 pm

I think it can be fixed, but it has to be a bottom up, top down fix. It will be hard. It is always hard to change the status quo.

We cannot do without law enforcement as there is always going to be that segment of society that wants to prey on the rest and take the easy way out. However, law enforcement doesn't always have to be a hammer.

If we as a society don't take the steps, it will only get worse. At this point in time, I worry for what we are leaving for our kids.

The other equally as bad an issue is never does the MSM do stories about LEO kindness, about the ones that work hard at community relations.

Here where I live, the PD is not used to collect money. They are focused on the community at large. We don't hear about any Norton officers having issues. Used to. The one that had a reputation lived 6 houses away from me. I knew him. I heard about him from people 60 miles away. "Oh you live there? Is so and so still on the force".

Now we have detectives that help put on concealed carry classes. When I found that out (met him at the class) his standing in my eyes went pretty high.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby bignflnut » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:33 pm

I quote John Adams' letter to the Massachusetts Militia (WHAT'S THAT?), 11 October 1798

But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion.

Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.” Thomas Jefferson, 1774

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams to Massachusetts Militia Oct 11, 1798
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby drc » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:58 pm

Day after day there are more and more instances, such as this:

https://www.abc15.com/news/america-in-c ... 8_3i_2w9bw

It is sad, but I watch my surroundings, stay away from where I shouldn't be and yet I am more afraid of the police. Why should that be ? Why should I have to worry about my life being ended or changed for the worse by some corrupt cop ?

Take Mr DUI, that was charged with perjury

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice ... rrest.html

There are few in our country who can so eff up your life quicker than a corrupt cop and unfortunately the black community has been on the receiving end for far too long.

I have had black friends, I hunted with them, gone to car shows with them. You could tell that there was always the apprehension about some things. Just like I said I have LEO friends that are decent human beings.

Now this is no excuse for rioting, property damage, assault etc. I view that as a symptom of getting back at "the man".

Also on the other hand, the black community is just as guilty of racism. My boy suffered a work injury and has to live on welfare while it works its way through the worker's compensation mess. (geared towards the business, not the injured, his neck was broke by stuff falling on his head). He and his family were part of the white folks whose paperwork was mysteriously filed in a box under some woman's desk. It is ongoing in the welfare department. There is an actual outside agency that advocates for the white people who are continually facing "lost" paperwork, requirements that are not really there, just made up.

One of these days I hope our country gets it together as we are teetoring on the edge right now. The majority of the normal people (black, white, green, polka dot) in this country would get along just fine if the fringes let them and we weren't being played by both sides to keep themselves in power.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby bignflnut » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:53 am

An Oregon police officer lost his job and then returned to work after fatally shooting an unarmed Black man in the back. A Florida sergeant was let go six times for using excessive force and stealing from suspects, while a Texas lieutenant was terminated five times after being accused of striking two women, making threatening calls and committing other infractions.

These officers and hundreds of others across the country were fired, sometimes repeatedly, for violating policies but got their jobs back after appealing their cases to an arbitrator who overturned their discipline — an all-too-common practice that some experts in law and in policing say stands in the way of real accountability.

“Arbitration inherently undermines police decisions,” said Michael Gennaco, a police reform expert and former federal civil rights prosecutor who specialized in police misconduct cases. “It’s dismaying to see arbitrators regularly putting people back to work.”

The killing of George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police officer sparked weeks of protests and calls for reforms, but experts say arbitration can block those efforts.

Arbitration, the appeals process used by most law enforcement agencies, contributes to officer misconduct, limits public oversight and dampens morale, said Stephen Rushin, a Loyola University Chicago law professor who last year published a study on arbitration in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review.
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.” Thomas Jefferson, 1774

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams to Massachusetts Militia Oct 11, 1798
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby schmieg » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:59 pm

bignflnut wrote:
Arbitration, the appeals process used by most law enforcement agencies, contributes to officer misconduct, limits public oversight and dampens morale, said Stephen Rushin, a Loyola University Chicago law professor who last year published a study on arbitration in the University of Pennsylvania Law Review.

Of course, if they prosecuted those officers, the arbitrators would have a hard time reinstating them while they were in jail or convicted felons with firearms disabilities.
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"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby steves 50de » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:02 pm

carmen fovozzo wrote:Yawn.....nothing new will be done..never has never will...hashing the same things over and over..Race...will be with us till a higher power directs us other wise..Sad...Nothing will change.

Getting qualified officers now will be very hard to do....it’s a problem now in a lot of departments. Can’t much blame anyone for not wanting this occupation...
We all know that the majority of officers are good...but politics come into play along with the media and paint a different picture...

My son has been a officer for over 20 years in a small quiet community and he’s fed up...

Rant over..
.

Hope he can retire soon and let someone else have the headache's.
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Re: Licensing the cops

Postby bignflnut » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:50 am

schmieg wrote:Of course, if they prosecuted those officers, the arbitrators would have a hard time reinstating them while they were in jail or convicted felons with firearms disabilities.


(*makes eye contact and places index finger on top of nose while nodding*)
“A free people claim their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.” Thomas Jefferson, 1774

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. " John Adams to Massachusetts Militia Oct 11, 1798
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