Behavior & Moderator Complaints
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:23 am
Recently I've been reviewing some of the complaints by people who don't like that they're being moderated. There is a belief among those who witness "enforcement" by the moderators as being picked on, and a perception that there is a lack of consistency in enforcement. The moderators here are a voluntary force, but the forums offer you the option to self-police your friends. Every post has a ! button which you can use to report concerns. Every member has a PM button which you may use to send them a polite PM and explain to them if you feel they're being a little inappropriate.
The moderators typically do NOT delete a post or a thread unless it is spam or abuse. The vast majority of every moderator action that consists of a post or thread "going away" is the result of that discussion being moved into a hidden area of the forums where the moderation team, as a group, discusses how to proceed. If a moderator is involved in a dispute they tend to recuse themselves from the decision making on their own accord. There in no clique, there is no coordinated effort to allow "friends" to get away with anything. Recently, I was moderated, and it wasn't a joke. I neglected to realize someone I posted was already being discussed here! There are hundreds of posts made every day, and enforcement of the rules is best described as the squeaky wheel getting the most attention - which leads people to think we're selectively enforcing the rules.
That means if a "questionable" post shows up at the time a moderator logs in because the thread in question is popular, you're going to perceive it as them picking on you while other potential "rule violations" may go unnoticed because a specific moderator isn't interested in that forum or area of discussion. Just like everyone here, our moderators have different interests and may not be as likely to go into the reloading or open carry forum. Enforcement of the rules is typically final, so bickering about a post being removed publicly is going to get you moderated again -- if you want to appeal a decision PM other moderators or Dan/myself, but keep in mind these decisions to remove entire threads are usually made as a group, usually with discussion preceding the removal. There are cases where we discuss and reverse a removal and put the thread right back where it was, or in another more appropriate area of the website. It DOES happen, and our moderators are first to admit we're all human.
For every complaint we get that the moderation staff is "too picky" we get twice as many compliments that the forums remain usable and troll-free. The vast majority of people appreciate the job these guys do in making this effort presentable to the public and usable by the rest of you. There are people who we all know come here for the sole purpose of challenging the moderators, some of them going so far as admitting they want to see how long it'll take to get their account disabled. (Which is a good way to get me to step in and shut your account off instead of watching the moderators give you every benefit of the doubt, which they will do) - This is the reality of the internet, and we're dealing with it here.
With respect to religious discussion - it was never our intent to prohibit it, but history tells us that literally 100% of all religious discussions here turned into a flaming war of words that created a substantial burden for our moderators to play referee (which is hard to do when you yourself have religious convictions) One of our prior moderators pointed to a policy on another gun rights forum where all discussion of a religious nature was prohibited. Knowing that the vast majority of people likely to frequent the forum would be impacted by this we didn't take this lightly -- but the fact is that we created the organization and the forums for the purpose of discussing firearms issues and the flame wars were clouding the issue. We take a very similar approach when endorsing political candidates - we may not agree with the overall political philosophy of a candidate but the recommendation of this organization needs to focus primarily on that candidate's record in our arena - gun rights. It might not be a popular rule, but its one we're not going to reverse because its effective at keeping the forums on topic.
If you feel you could do a better job, start doing it, or tell me how we could do it better.
*See my next post in this thread....
The moderators typically do NOT delete a post or a thread unless it is spam or abuse. The vast majority of every moderator action that consists of a post or thread "going away" is the result of that discussion being moved into a hidden area of the forums where the moderation team, as a group, discusses how to proceed. If a moderator is involved in a dispute they tend to recuse themselves from the decision making on their own accord. There in no clique, there is no coordinated effort to allow "friends" to get away with anything. Recently, I was moderated, and it wasn't a joke. I neglected to realize someone I posted was already being discussed here! There are hundreds of posts made every day, and enforcement of the rules is best described as the squeaky wheel getting the most attention - which leads people to think we're selectively enforcing the rules.
That means if a "questionable" post shows up at the time a moderator logs in because the thread in question is popular, you're going to perceive it as them picking on you while other potential "rule violations" may go unnoticed because a specific moderator isn't interested in that forum or area of discussion. Just like everyone here, our moderators have different interests and may not be as likely to go into the reloading or open carry forum. Enforcement of the rules is typically final, so bickering about a post being removed publicly is going to get you moderated again -- if you want to appeal a decision PM other moderators or Dan/myself, but keep in mind these decisions to remove entire threads are usually made as a group, usually with discussion preceding the removal. There are cases where we discuss and reverse a removal and put the thread right back where it was, or in another more appropriate area of the website. It DOES happen, and our moderators are first to admit we're all human.
For every complaint we get that the moderation staff is "too picky" we get twice as many compliments that the forums remain usable and troll-free. The vast majority of people appreciate the job these guys do in making this effort presentable to the public and usable by the rest of you. There are people who we all know come here for the sole purpose of challenging the moderators, some of them going so far as admitting they want to see how long it'll take to get their account disabled. (Which is a good way to get me to step in and shut your account off instead of watching the moderators give you every benefit of the doubt, which they will do) - This is the reality of the internet, and we're dealing with it here.
With respect to religious discussion - it was never our intent to prohibit it, but history tells us that literally 100% of all religious discussions here turned into a flaming war of words that created a substantial burden for our moderators to play referee (which is hard to do when you yourself have religious convictions) One of our prior moderators pointed to a policy on another gun rights forum where all discussion of a religious nature was prohibited. Knowing that the vast majority of people likely to frequent the forum would be impacted by this we didn't take this lightly -- but the fact is that we created the organization and the forums for the purpose of discussing firearms issues and the flame wars were clouding the issue. We take a very similar approach when endorsing political candidates - we may not agree with the overall political philosophy of a candidate but the recommendation of this organization needs to focus primarily on that candidate's record in our arena - gun rights. It might not be a popular rule, but its one we're not going to reverse because its effective at keeping the forums on topic.
If you feel you could do a better job, start doing it, or tell me how we could do it better.
*See my next post in this thread....