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Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:05 am
by synack2
I got a call from a ATF agent. A gun I sold in 2012 turned up in an "investigation". I bought it new. They contacted Taurus/Distributor and found out what FFL it was sold through and FFLs records showed it was sold to me and I still have the same Cell number as when I wrote my number on there form. I looked at my records and I had the name of the person I sold it to. It was a moving guy that was moving a refrigerator for us that wanted to buy it. I verified his Ohio residency and asked if he was legally allowed to have it. I gave that information to the agent. Should I be worried about anything else or contact an attorney. The told me that I did nothing wrong and I am not in any trouble.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:21 am
by JustaShooter
I wouldn't worry about it. This is almost certainly the end as far as you are concerned. I've seen this *many* times, and even when you can't tell them who you sold it to, it's over at this point. They are trying to directly tie the gun to their suspect, not you.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:31 am
by synack2
JustaShooter wrote:I wouldn't worry about it. This is almost certainly the end as far as you are concerned. I've seen this *many* times, and even when you can't tell them who you sold it to, it's over at this point. They are trying to directly tie the gun to their suspect, not you.


That's Good. I am glad I kept it in my records and put the name of the person I sold it to. I really hope my gun that I sold didn't kill someone.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:39 am
by JustaShooter
synack2 wrote:I really hope my gun that I sold didn't kill someone.

For your sake, I hope not too.

For me, I don't worry about it any more than I would if a car I sold was used to kill someone. I do my due diligence, after that it's out of my hands.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:06 pm
by schmieg
synack2 wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:I wouldn't worry about it. This is almost certainly the end as far as you are concerned. I've seen this *many* times, and even when you can't tell them who you sold it to, it's over at this point. They are trying to directly tie the gun to their suspect, not you.


That's Good. I am glad I kept it in my records and put the name of the person I sold it to. I really hope my gun that I sold didn't kill someone.

It wasn't the gun that may have caused a problem; it was whoever was holding it.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:49 am
by Brian D.
Yep, agree with Mike. Will keep the story short: A new gun I traded to my brother was later stolen and used in a murder (which was bargained down to manslaughter, a travesty in and of itself). After conviction and sentencing the cops finally did the trace that linked the gun back to me. Don't know if it was locals or the feds who dropped the ball that badly. I asked the detective if they were returning the gun to me. He cringed because that sounded callous, maybe. Then he scowled when I asked if he was keeping it for himself. He never denied it though, the gun was a very nice Browning Hi Power.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:34 pm
by synack2
It wasn't the gun that may have caused a problem; it was whoever was holding it.


I know, but it was a Taurus 25 ACP that I sold for $100. I would rather have just held onto it and not had it end up in the hands of whoever was holding it. Yeah I know they probably would have gotten a different gun anyway.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:49 pm
by Glock Rock
If, or perhaps when, the Progressive Socialist Marxist Democrats get their way when your situation happens in the future you will be liable, along with the manufacturer.

As of now you have no liability. You can sell your private property at will. Thank the NRA.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:14 pm
by M-Quigley
synack2 wrote:I got a call from a ATF agent. A gun I sold in 2012 turned up in an "investigation". I bought it new. They contacted Taurus/Distributor and found out what FFL it was sold through and FFLs records showed it was sold to me and I still have the same Cell number as when I wrote my number on there form. I looked at my records and I had the name of the person I sold it to. It was a moving guy that was moving a refrigerator for us that wanted to buy it. I verified his Ohio residency and asked if he was legally allowed to have it. I gave that information to the agent. Should I be worried about anything else or contact an attorney. The told me that I did nothing wrong and I am not in any trouble.


IDK if this helps or not with wondering if it was used in a crime or not, but it used to be that a trace didn't automatically mean that the gun in question was used by a criminal to commit a crime, but part of a crime situation overall, like a law abiding defender in self defense. Back when I was an FFL I got a few calls on guns that I sold. IDK if the people I talked to were allowed to talk about why they were doing a trace or not, but on 2 of the calls they did provide me the details of what happened. The term one of the investigators said was he was [i]just dotting the i's and crossing the T's,[/i] which sounds better than fishing for something to charge the good guy/gal with? IDK :roll: Sorry for being so cynical.

The third caller didn't provide any details of what happened but when I was asked about a particular handgun I knew who it was because that person was the only person that I had ever sold that type of handgun to. I was eventually able to find out directly from the buyer the details of what happened. All three firearms were used in self defense against an armed attacker.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:03 am
by catfish86
Brian D. wrote:Yep, agree with Mike. Will keep the story short: A new gun I traded to my brother was later stolen and used in a murder (which was bargained down to manslaughter, a travesty in and of itself). After conviction and sentencing the cops finally did the trace that linked the gun back to me. Don't know if it was locals or the feds who dropped the ball that badly. I asked the detective if they were returning the gun to me. He cringed because that sounded callous, maybe. Then he scowled when I asked if he was keeping it for himself. He never denied it though, the gun was a very nice Browning Hi Power.


Speaks to how thorough they were in that they were doing the trace AFTER the trial...seems like a receiving stolen property charge would have been added.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:40 pm
by Brian D.
catfish86 wrote:
Brian D. wrote:Yep, agree with Mike. Will keep the story short: A new gun I traded to my brother was later stolen and used in a murder (which was bargained down to manslaughter, a travesty in and of itself). After conviction and sentencing the cops finally did the trace that linked the gun back to me. Don't know if it was locals or the feds who dropped the ball that badly. I asked the detective if they were returning the gun to me. He cringed because that sounded callous, maybe. Then he scowled when I asked if he was keeping it for himself. He never denied it though, the gun was a very nice Browning Hi Power.


Speaks to how thorough they were in that they were doing the trace AFTER the trial...seems like a receiving stolen property charge would have been added.


This story came up in casual conversation with a county prosecutor (in a different state for what it's worth) yesterday. He felt like it was more likely the BATFE that dropped the ball. Didn't exactly say why, but he nodded what I mentioned that's the same outfit who take well over a year to process suppressor and Class 3 paperwork.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:49 am
by OhioPaints
Years ago I had a Ruger P90 stolen. Some years later, a county sheriff detective called and said the P90 had been recovered in Florida. He checked about getting it returned and was told the city policy (Pensacola IIRC) was not to return guns used in crimes. Gee, how nice, victimize me twice! I have to wonder if someone down there didn't keep it.

Ken

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 9:35 am
by M-Quigley
OhioPaints wrote:Years ago I had a Ruger P90 stolen. Some years later, a county sheriff detective called and said the P90 had been recovered in Florida. He checked about getting it returned and was told the city policy (Pensacola IIRC) was not to return guns used in crimes. Gee, how nice, victimize me twice! I have to wonder if someone down there didn't keep it.

Ken


So if your vehicle is stolen and later used in the commission of a crime do they get to keep that too? This shouldn't be legal, but it would probably cost more to go after them in court about it than the item is worth, particularly since you don't live in that area. :(

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 11:55 am
by schmieg
M-Quigley wrote:
OhioPaints wrote:Years ago I had a Ruger P90 stolen. Some years later, a county sheriff detective called and said the P90 had been recovered in Florida. He checked about getting it returned and was told the city policy (Pensacola IIRC) was not to return guns used in crimes. Gee, how nice, victimize me twice! I have to wonder if someone down there didn't keep it.

Ken


So if your vehicle is stolen and later used in the commission of a crime do they get to keep that too? This shouldn't be legal, but it would probably cost more to go after them in court about it than the item is worth, particularly since you don't live in that area. :(

Pensacola is a nice place to visit.

Re: Call From ATF Agent

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:47 am
by AzRanger
Same thing happened to me a few years ago and I didn't have the person's name I sold the gun to. It was at a gun show and I verified his current Ohio DL. The ATF agent told me to always get the person's name you sell the gun to and I said, Sorry buddy, that's not required in Ohio. Never heard another thing about it. 8)