Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

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Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby Ole_grizzly » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:52 am

Yesterday I had a very positive interaction with a sheriff from Geauga. I was passing through Amish country near burton and was on my motorcycle. I was going 70-72 on a 50mph country road. Saw the cruiser pull out as soon as I went past so I just pulled right over. Shut off the bike, flipped up my helmet and notified as soon as he stepped out of the car. He asked to clarify that I was armed, and where it was. Told him in a holster in my right hip. He asked where my wallet was, and it was in a zipper pocket on the right side of my jacket. He asked me politely to step off the motorcycle and told me that he was going to remove my firearm just while we talked. He lifted up my jacket and withdrew my Walther P90, and I had to instruct him a few times how to use the mag release since it’s a lever under the trigger guard rather than a button. He put my mag and the +1 round in his pocket, and just had me set the gun down on the seat of my motorcycle. I then got out my wallet, gave him both licenses and my insurance card. Asked where I was going, and I was on my way to a niece’s birthday party at Wagon Trails near Youngstown (FYI it’s not posted). I told him I was dropping the bike off at Johnny K’s to get new tires and my wife and kids would be passing shortly, and that I’m sure I’m going to get a look from my wife and he laughed at that. He went back to his car and ran my info, and my wife passed by then, I gave her a wave and he chuckled from his driver’s seat. Minute later he came back, thanked me for notifying properly and he gave me a verbal warning. Had me reload while he was still standing there and he went back after I holstered.

Anyways he was very polite and calm, and quick to send me on my way. This was my first notification from a motorcycle, and while I didn’t like having someone draw my gun it was as reasonable as could be. Gave the A+ because I got a warning when I had earned a ticket. This is the 5th warning I’ve gotten since becoming a CHL carrier 7+ years ago, and I do think it’s because of proper notification, and that I don’t lie about if I was speeding or not.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby DOA33 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:10 am

I would give the cop a F-. :evil: What did that accomplish having the cop handle a firearm that was holstered( I know we don't have much say about handing over a firearm when asked by police during a legal stop) that he clearly didn't understand to work. Just to turn around and stand there letting you reload and holster cause it sure didn't sound like it was for everyone's safety or he would have told you to wait to reload after he left. Ohio really needs to get rid of notification.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby wls » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:45 am

I’m with DOA33 on this one......no need to have your pistol removed by him. I’m pro LEO, but they also have to recognize we, who carry and INFORM according to our current law, are not a threat to their safety. Good you didn’t get a ticket, not so good he had to remove your pistol.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby 502ci » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:07 am

I also agree on the F-.
All that handling of the firearm is a disaster waiting to happen.
If an officer is so concerned about taking a gun he knows the legally armed person has so he can feel safe...well that is just plain stupid because if the person that was stopped truly had any intention of shooting the officer they would just do it with a second firearm they did not mention to him...so stupid.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby Brian D. » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:33 am

I agree with the grouchy chorus :mrgreen: above. Supposing you'd been wearing some kind of active retention holster? I know a heck of a lot about gun gear, more than most police, and yet there are holsters out there whose operation would be unfamiliar to me. Same thing regarding the manual of arms for various handguns, as you experienced. Alongside the road during a traffic stop I'm not inclined to give anyone an equipment lesson.

EVERY negligent discharge occurs while a firearm is being handled. Any unneeded handling, especially by those not familiar with it, is dangerously stupid. Or, stupidly dangerous.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby Ole_grizzly » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:54 pm

I certainly didn’t like having my firearm handled and was slightly nervous reloading with him next to me, but he handled it safely, and did ask about what kind of holster before attempting to remove. I don’t believe he was initially going to remove my firearm, but my wallet was close enough that’s what made him decide. I will use a different pocket in the future. I’ve learned so much from these boards that I felt prepared for this situation and hope others can learn from what I did too.

I simply do not understand the hardened opposition to notification for many on this board. I discussed my position and listened to others at length in a thread about last year’s legislative wish list. I’ve been in close to a dozen notification situations, all have been perfectly fine, both with cuyahoga and other county’s police and now a sheriff. As long as I notified properly, and stayed calm, I’ve found that each notification improved the outcome in the form of a warning, or a discussion from the officer that is usually positive if not neutral.

It’s a completely losing argument to non gun owners that are sympathetic towards law abiding citizen firearm ownership. In other words, people that choose not to have firearms but favor the rights of others, think gun rights people are nuts to try to pass laws to avoid notifying police. Before I’m flamed too bad, I am aware of problems others have been through, and the problematic and subjective nature that others have experienced. Should we “have” to notify or obtain a license for a constitutional right? No, but that’s not our reality. Again I’d suggest focusing on meaningful things that could actually help prevent violence, like straw purchaser punishments increased to a matching penalty, then argue over something that no one outside of a gun rights activist thinks is reasonable.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby Ole_grizzly » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:59 pm

DOA33 wrote: Just to turn around and stand there letting you reload and holster cause it sure didn't sound like it was for everyone's safety or he would have told you to wait to reload after he left. Ohio really needs to get rid of notification.


I even asked him if he’d prefer I wait til he got in the cruiser and he said no, I was fine to go ahead right then. I asked that based on reading some other’s experiences where they were asked that.

To add a little more fuel to your fire, he didn’t ask me if I had anything else on me, I always have an extra mag and since he left the gun with me if I was intent on something he didn’t protect himself very well. Like the others have said, he shouldn’t have anything to worry about since I notified nor tried to run on my bike. (I get the perception very few people pull over on crotch rockets, so because I did I think that helped how he treated me).
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby schmieg » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:19 pm

Ole_grizzly wrote:I certainly didn’t like having my firearm handled and was slightly nervous reloading with him next to me, but he handled it safely, and did ask about what kind of holster before attempting to remove. I don’t believe he was initially going to remove my firearm, but my wallet was close enough that’s what made him decide. I will use a different pocket in the future. I’ve learned so much from these boards that I felt prepared for this situation and hope others can learn from what I did too.

I simply do not understand the hardened opposition to notification for many on this board. I discussed my position and listened to others at length in a thread about last year’s legislative wish list. I’ve been in close to a dozen notification situations, all have been perfectly fine, both with cuyahoga and other county’s police and now a sheriff. As long as I notified properly, and stayed calm, I’ve found that each notification improved the outcome in the form of a warning, or a discussion from the officer that is usually positive if not neutral.

It’s a completely losing argument to non gun owners that are sympathetic towards law abiding citizen firearm ownership. In other words, people that choose not to have firearms but favor the rights of others, think gun rights people are nuts to try to pass laws to avoid notifying police. Before I’m flamed too bad, I am aware of problems others have been through, and the problematic and subjective nature that others have experienced. Should we “have” to notify or obtain a license for a constitutional right? No, but that’s not our reality. Again I’d suggest focusing on meaningful things that could actually help prevent violence, like straw purchaser punishments increased to a matching penalty, then argue over something that no one outside of a gun rights activist thinks is reasonable.

Other states have functioned perfectly well without the required notification. Any officer that really wants to know can ask if you are armed and you are required to answer. Of course, those that will shoot the officer won't notify or won't answer truthfully when asked, so it is a worthless requirement that requires someone who hasn't had a lot of police interaction and is now in a potentially stressful situation being stopped to remember to notify immediately while he has a dozen other things going through his mind. People get used to the gun on their hip and don't think about it. Of course, it does generate revenue and give the officer something to hold over the licensee if they aren't fast enough in notifying. Any officer with smarts should approach every vehicle as if someone is armed and won't notify.

It also plays havoc with those from other states who may be unaware of or have forgotten about Ohio's requirement. Prudent people should check the laws of any states they travel through, but not all do and some forget.

Let us also not forget those instances where the person is not used to interacting with police, but they attempted to notify, but the officer kept telling them to shut up and then hit them with the failure to notify charge.

It's a stupid requirement. Only those abiding by the law are bound by it. Someone carrying illegally is not required to notify for obvious reasons.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby Ole_grizzly » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:51 pm

Thanks Schmieg for your reply. I don’t disagree with anything you posted. However I went and read through the sticky thread of notification horror stories, and while there were a few that were unpleasant and unprofessional, doesn’t seem like anyone was unduly imprisoned or had any civil rights violations.

Would you care to take on my comment that it’s a losing argument to anyone other than gun rights folks? I’m in favor of removing notification. I agree that other states function just fine. But in our current political climate, with a republican dominated legislature and governor for many years, and many efforts on people’s parts on this board, we still have the requirement, and we seem like crazy people to non firearm people. We shouldn’t waste our time on an issue that hasn’t changed, and instead focus on meaningfully reducing violence.

The legislature proved with the hb228 fix that they can move fast when motivated or convinced of the merits of something. They clearly are not on notification. Doesn’t make it right, but it’s time to accept reality and move on to better things.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby qmti » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:41 pm

Definitely a F grade for that LEO. No need for him to handle that firearm. You are license to carry it. The more you handle the more the potential of accident. I would doubt that he is a expert on the operation of the hundreds of different firearms on the market. Poor call on his part.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby schmieg » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:22 pm

Ole_grizzly wrote:Thanks Schmieg for your reply. I don’t disagree with anything you posted. However I went and read through the sticky thread of notification horror stories, and while there were a few that were unpleasant and unprofessional, doesn’t seem like anyone was unduly imprisoned or had any civil rights violations.

Would you care to take on my comment that it’s a losing argument to anyone other than gun rights folks? I’m in favor of removing notification. I agree that other states function just fine. But in our current political climate, with a republican dominated legislature and governor for many years, and many efforts on people’s parts on this board, we still have the requirement, and we seem like crazy people to non firearm people. We shouldn’t waste our time on an issue that hasn’t changed, and instead focus on meaningfully reducing violence.

The legislature proved with the hb228 fix that they can move fast when motivated or convinced of the merits of something. They clearly are not on notification. Doesn’t make it right, but it’s time to accept reality and move on to better things.

Almost any legislative action which we would consider an improvement is a losing argument to anyone other than gun rights folks. Those opposed to gun rights will fight it for the sake of fighting it and most of the rest don't know or care, but listen to the media which is among those who are opposed to gun rights. The money and power are all on the other side. All we have is ourselves.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby WhyNot » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:23 am

...and most of the rest don't know or care, but listen to the media which is among those who are opposed to gun rights. The money and power are all on the other side. All we have is ourselves.


...ourselves and, THE TRUTH. Or for the lesser minds of the unwashed masses, opinions rooted in fact, not feelings, conjecture, superstitions; unfounded fear.

Kudos to the cyclist OP for how you handled the traffic stop and the overall results. Officer was within his rights to remove pistol, was ALSO within his rights to ticket you. Sounds like the teeter totter balanced out on this one :)
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby wls » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:34 am

While notification is not popular with a lot of us, it’s the fact the you notified and then the LEO still wanted to remove the pistol. By notifying the officer you showed that you are a law abiding CCW holder, but he still saw the need to remove the pistol......don’t understand his logic. If I’m in the same situation and the officer wants to remove my pistol I’ll let him, but after he is finished with his business (and hopefully no ticket has been issued), I would probably question his logic for removing my pistol (depending on his attitude during the stop).

I’m not a person to give an LEO a hard time, but a politely asked question on disarming might help educate the officer for future encounters.
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:34 am

Ole_grizzly wrote:It’s a completely losing argument to non gun owners that are sympathetic towards law abiding citizen firearm ownership. In other words, people that choose not to have firearms but favor the rights of others, think gun rights people are nuts to try to pass laws to avoid notifying police. Before I’m flamed too bad, I am aware of problems others have been through, and the problematic and subjective nature that others have experienced. Should we “have” to notify or obtain a license for a constitutional right? No, but that’s not our reality. Again I’d suggest focusing on meaningful things that could actually help prevent violence, like straw purchaser punishments increased to a matching penalty, then argue over something that no one outside of a gun rights activist thinks is reasonable.


I think that's a good perspective to have - it's an important perspective to have. Here's my response: Notification endangers law enforcement. Many Ohio LEOs have responded to the idea of repealing notification with concerns of "how will I know if someone is armed?" This is a complaint that's on record in OGA hearings and I've heard local Sgt's tell me that officers have said the same thing. It's not a rare comment.

The problem is that criminals don't have to, and won't, notify. They're the people most likely to endanger law enforcement and mandatory notification has led many officers to assume that if someone doesn't say "I have a gun" then they are not armed. That's the exact opposite of their training, but the way Ohio has required notification (which is very uncommon compared to the rest of the states) has led a lot of officers to this complacency.

I want notification repealed for a lot of reasons. The most significant is I think it's dangerous to both the citizen and the officer. As noted above the majority of states do not have Ohio's form of proactive notification (some kind of notification, yes, but not the "blurt it out as the officer approaches" that our law requires).
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Re: Geauga Sheriff A+ traffic stop.

Postby pk47 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:01 am

Ole_grizzly wrote: [snip] ... my wallet was close enough that’s what made him decide. I will use a different pocket in the future. [snip]


Whatever one's view is of notification, given it is a reality, this should be one's standard operating method anyway. No sense giving any officer concern, or reason to want to remove your firearm, by carrying the two close to one another. After all, women are often instructed to keep the wallet and firearm separate if they are carrying a purse - don't put the two in the same compartment.

For me, it's weapon right side, ID left side (and in the shirt pocket if I have one). I bought a small wallet just for the ID purposes and easy shirt pocket carry - very thin and little bulk (Slimline brand).

(I am in favor of removing notification, so I'm with most of you posting on this thread)
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