Page 1 of 1

Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:18 pm
by JMO
The story:

My younger brother lives a few blocks away from me (Auglaize County). Last Sunday night/Monday morning (works 2nd shift so gets home late) he noticed that his front door looked a lot like it had been tampered with. He was convinced enough that he called me up asking if I had been over to his house, & said it looked like someone was trying to get in. Anyway, he calls the cops and makes a report of it.

Fast forward 3 nights & on Wed night he planned on driving to a friends house to shoot some pool (mind you its late, he's on a 3rd shift schedule so 11pm ish). His friend lives just a block away, he pulls out of the gravel alley that he parks in and drives the block to see his buddy isn't home. So he just drove back home, pulled back in his alley but before going in he decides to sit out in his car and finish his cig & can of soda.

As he's sitting quietly in his car, he hears somebody walking down the alley- the gravel crunching under them... He watches this black shadow walk up to the back of his house, then split between the him & his neighbors house. He didn't initially think anything besides that maybe it was his neighbor walking back to their house. They both share an alley to their backyard parking/back doors of their house.

He finishes his smoke and soda and starts walking up to the back door to go back inside. Before he does he has a second thought as says 'you know what I was just broke into 2 days ago, lets check outfront'. As he's walking up the side of his house you can look in through the side windows of his house, & see his front door. He looks at the front door through his house windows as he's walking alongside his property and sees this same guy- door pried open- and guys arm reaching in THROUGH HIS HOUSE to unlock the chain link lock keeping him from getting in. He yells "HEY MAN" & dude bolts...

Ofcourse this is followed by another call to police, & another report, but I wont even go into detail about it. The cops on that call did basically nothing. Told him "well all you can do is lock-up! use your dead bolt"

Of which- if anyone can help with the best way of properly filing a formal complaint. I'm interested.

A couple Questions I'm wondering...
My brother mentioned he had no weapons. Since the 1st attempt he had slept with a baseball ball and a butcher knife & half-jokingly made the comment that he was going to cut the guys fingers off if he caught his hand inside the front door trying to unlock haha! But obviously- you cant do this, right? Legally... this is a stupid idea. Your not going to be able to prove he was breaking in, he wasn't "inside", & your probably the one going to jail for assault with a deadly weapon. Yes?

I loaned to him my spare 9mm Shield (as most of us have now with that amazing rebate, I'm sure). I know he's completely okay to dump a half-mag in the POS that walks in through his front door after breaking in. Though it made me wonder. If he caught the guy in the same position as he was the 1st time- reaching in trying to get through- the legalities would be the same as cutting off his fingers..... assault with a deadly weapon. Personally, I'd find it hard to not want to shoot through the door, but that's the scenario. Is he stuck waiting until this guy comes completely into his house before he blasts him, cuz the cops seem uninterested in taking it seriously. My brother thinks the guy is homeless and living in a garage down his alley, & listens for his car to leave, & then tries getting in to rape his gf or something. Guy is crazy, has numerous priors. Yes he knows his name & everything & reported it to officer who did nothing about it.

Sorry things are so scrambled and unstructured, but this happened last week & I'm feeling cautious of giving out too much info given this hasn't been resolved yet

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:08 pm
by Stryker74
JMO wrote:I loaned to him my spare 9mm Shield (as most of us have now with that amazing rebate, I'm sure). I know he's completely okay to dump a half-mag in the POS that walks in through his front door after breaking in.


I am going to be candid - that is terrible advice to tell your brother. In your home, the duty to retreat is removed, and the burden of proof of acting in self-defense flips to the prosecutor to prove. That is it - you still have to have justifiable fear, and you cannot start or escalate the situation.

That said, if the thief breaks in, and has no weapons on him nor presented to be a threat, this advice "to dump a half-mag in the POS" will likely get your brother hauled off to jail.

Too often, I hear people act like "Castle Doctrine" in Ohio is like some magic talisman that protects you in a shooting if the person entered your home. It is not a free pass for shooting someone in your home - and the prosecutor would likely point the fact of no weapons as not having justifiable fear. Besides, shooting someone because they entered your home will be twisted into escalating the situation by a prosecutor.

Besides, stuff is just that - stuff. It stinks to have someone take it, but is it worth the risk of going to jail (or spending thousands to try to avoid jail)?

Please go here and read pages 17 through 20 of the Attorney General's handbook. After you call your brother and take back your previous advice.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:34 pm
by MyWifeSaidYes
If you stick your hand into my house, it's going to stay there. :twisted:


Just kidding.


Maybe.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:51 pm
by JMO
Stryker74 wrote:
JMO wrote:I loaned to him my spare 9mm Shield (as most of us have now with that amazing rebate, I'm sure). I know he's completely okay to dump a half-mag in the POS that walks in through his front door after breaking in.


I am going to be candid - that is terrible advice to tell your brother. In your home, the duty to retreat is removed, and the burden of proof of acting in self-defense flips to the prosecutor to prove. That is it - you still have to have justifiable fear, and you cannot start or escalate the situation.

That said, if the thief breaks in, and has no weapons on him nor presented to be a threat, this advice "to dump a half-mag in the POS" will likely get your brother hauled off to jail.

Too often, I hear people act like "Castle Doctrine" in Ohio is like some magic talisman that protects you in a shooting if the person entered your home. It is not a free pass for shooting someone in your home - and the prosecutor would likely point the fact of no weapons as not having justifiable fear. Besides, shooting someone because they entered your home will be twisted into escalating the situation by a prosecutor.

Besides, stuff is just that - stuff. It stinks to have someone take it, but is it worth the risk of going to jail (or spending thousands to try to avoid jail)?

Please go here and read pages 17 through 20 of the Attorney General's handbook. After you call your brother and take back your previous advice.



As I stated, there is a history, & I haven't included all details. This is not a good guy. He is definitely a threat to my brothers well-being.

Furthermore, if a person breaks into your home, they have demonstrated themselves to be a threat. Period. 12am, forcibly enter my house, yes. Your getting a half-mag dump.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:09 pm
by JMO
Stryker74 wrote:Please go here and read pages 17 through 20 of the Attorney General's handbook.


I believe page 18 summed it up:
"The law presumes you to have acted in self-defense or defense of another when using deadly force if the victim had unlawfully and without privilege entered or was in the process of entering the residence or vehicle you occupy."

I'm under the impression that you may think it's just a theft of property. This guy waited for my brother to leave his house, hearing his car pull away but not come back home. Knowing the girlfriend was still inside the house.

You don't break in a house that's knowingly occupied by only a young, petite girlfriend, once the boyfriends car leaves, to steal property.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:01 am
by sd790
Your girlfriend needs a gun.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:54 am
by Brian D.
JMO wrote:
Stryker74 wrote:Please go here and read pages 17 through 20 of the Attorney General's handbook.


I believe page 18 summed it up:
"The law presumes you to have acted in self-defense or defense of another when using deadly force if the victim had unlawfully and without privilege entered or was in the process of entering the residence or vehicle you occupy."

I'm under the impression that you may think it's just a theft of property. This guy waited for my brother to leave his house, hearing his car pull away but not come back home. Knowing the girlfriend was still inside the house.

You don't break in a house that's knowingly occupied by only a young, petite girlfriend, once the boyfriends car leaves, to steal property.


First read through of your initial post I missed the part about a girlfriend being inside, alone. I think Striker may have, also. Way more serious than having a stereo stolen, we get it.

See if you, your brother, maybe a trusted neighbor can start eyeballing the would-be break in guy a little closer. No confrontation, but some video can't hurt. Make time to see what's going on, sometimes one dirtbag makes dang near a crimewave out of himself.

On vacation in small town New Mexico years ago, purely because of dumb luck and keeping my eyes open, I happened to catch a "homeless" guy committing arson. It turned out this dude was responsible for a dozen more fires, numerous car and (mostly vacant) home break ins, etc. And, Albuquerque was searching hard for this guy for something a little worse..two murders.

Nobody should be a vigilante, but in your own neighborhood you should certainly be vigilant.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:17 am
by JustaShooter
sd790 wrote:Your girlfriend needs a gun.

And training on how to use it... Otherwise, it is potentially a liability.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:11 am
by WestonDon
JustaShooter wrote:
sd790 wrote:Your girlfriend needs a gun.

And training on how to use it...And when. Otherwise, it is potentially a liability.


Very important, just sayin'.

Re: Attempted Break-In 2 times in 3 days

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:07 pm
by JustaShooter
WestonDon wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
sd790 wrote:Your girlfriend needs a gun.

And training on how to use it...And when. Otherwise, it is potentially a liability.


Very important, just sayin'.

Indeed! Thanks for the addition!