Defensive gun use today

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steves 50de
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by steves 50de »

tbrew85 wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:Threw85....I was sort of upset at what you did because you preach the opposite in every post you post..

If your looking for a pat on the back from anyone, start practicing what you preach..

Would you mind giving me an example? Not sure that I've ever "preached" anything on here. I mean, I've been here 4 years and 4 days and this is my 820th post. Not exactly a prolific poster. And I would think I'm more in line with what Werz posted about, No one REALLY knows exactly what they would do in a given situation.

Im sorry that I upset you.
Carmen seems crabby today if i shot a 120 for a round of golf i would be crabby too. :lol:
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gaptrick
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by gaptrick »

Tbrew85 was the only guy there, the only guy that looked the guy in his eyes, the only guy that heard the inflection in the mans voice. The man pulled away only to return and confront tbrew85. Tbrew didn't pull a weapon but felt the need to if not have it low and ready, have a hand on it if it were needed.

Maybe a little too much conversation between the two, but I would never second guess the aggressors intent nor Tbrew's level of fear. I in fact hope to use the blank empty stare approach if I were ever to find myself in a similar situation so your post of this event is appreciated by me.

Now for the sake of others on this thread, I would like to ask how clearly the voice recorder you carry picked up the conversation and what the police thought about the whole thing when you called the thing in... I mean the man DID say he was willing to 'SHOOT IT OUT' with you?

I know... I don't EDC a recorder either, only when I THINK I might need one. But the first to call the police is generally considered to be the plaintiff if things progress. To get the witness' name sure wouldn't have hurt things either.

I can armchair quarterback too...
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schmieg
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by schmieg »

WestonDon wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:It simply became the Iron Triangle. Most times, the Iron Triangle doesn't advertise its presence beforehand.
Exactly. That's why we carry. Sometimes the Iron Triangle chases us down and bites us on the butt before we even know it's there.
And some of us seem to be high powered magnets.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by XDSC9G30 »

Tbrew85- Thank you for posting this. This post has made me think of how I handle situations similar to yours. The gas station I frequent most borders Toledo, which we all know isn't the best. Incidents like this aren't common but certainly possible.

Usually my response is to ignore or stare blankly at anyone who decides to harrass/verbally assault me. Sometimes I laugh on accident just because I think angry people are generally comical in their reaction to such insignificant life events. Does taking that parking space, gas pump, or seat really matter in 25 years? If you are already there it's yours, it not it is someone elses to take. People certainly aren't as cordial as they used to be.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by WeinerDog »

My concern here and a couple of other instances posted is how quick the gun comes to mind. My gosh, the criteria is your life is in danger, not you might get your butt kicked. I think until I start feeling like some serious bodily harm is coming I am NOT pulling my gun.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by Bama.45 »

WeinerDog wrote:My concern here and a couple of other instances posted is how quick the gun comes to mind. My gosh, the criteria is your life is in danger, not you might get your butt kicked. I think until I start feeling like some serious bodily harm is coming I am NOT pulling my gun.

How many have died from being punched?... I understand what you mean, but the flipside of that is.. No one knows if/when this will turn from just an old fashioned fight, to being beat to death... Fights aren't like they used to be when you had someone down, you got off of them... And if it starts out as a fight and doesn't stop,lying unconscious it's too late to pull your gun for defense...Its a tough situation and we can all say what we think/plan and practice to do... But no one knows how they will react until in that situation... And from what I read, he DIDN'T pull the gun, just laid his hand on the grip.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by WayneB »

I'm curious how I'm supposed to know, before anything physical actually happens, that someone I met 10 seconds ago, who says he has a gun and is willing to "shoot it out" in a public space, only intends to kick my butt, but will certainly stop short of serious bodily harm and refrain from incapacitating me and stealing my car and will not accidentally kill me, thereby not requiring my drawing or using my weapon.

I haven't fought since I was a a young lad growing up and it was with my older brother -- so I always lost. An angry individual coming at me with a hot enough head that he couldn't control himself over the fact that I was in line before he was --- he's got a nut loose or is otherwise compromised. At the back end, I would have done the same thing. Been prepared to draw while yelling at the individual to stay away from me.

(At least the lady on the other side agreed that the driver was crazy -- might need a good witness.)

As for what led up to that situation, I most likely would have said less, most likely apologized (but probably not moved) --- and appreciate the real life post in order to do more thinking.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by WeinerDog »

My concern is how quickly the gun came to mind, not that he touched it or pulled it. I am just afraid we could end up visiting a brother in prison that goes to the gun that quick. I am 63 with a artificial hip and
severe arthritis so I understand trepidation but we still have the prosecutors to contend with.
The one punch argument has been addressed.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by OHIOSTEVE »

It is not in my nature to shut up when an a###ole starts running their mouth BUT carrying a weapon changed that a lot. On the other hand I will not grovel simply because I have the capability to take a life. IMO the OP talked too much. TO ME that would signal fear and if I am the aggressor I get MORE aggressive. I find that silence and a smile as if you are REALLY looking forward to what is coming next ( either faked or real ;-) ) tends to back people off who are not real confident in their decision to start stuff. BUT as has been stated, I was not there.. no one died.. no one went to jail so a good outcome cannot be had from a completely screwed scenario. He evidently did something right.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by OHIOSTEVE »

I used to train judo jujitsu and submission wrestling ( I am a usetacould lol) our head instructor was a police officer ( nam vet.. police self defense trainer etc.) he has told me that a single blow to the head IS considered a deadly threat because it is not uncommon for that single blow to result in death.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by deanimator »

WeinerDog wrote:My concern here and a couple of other instances posted is how quick the gun comes to mind. My gosh, the criteria is your life is in danger, not you might get your butt kicked. I think until I start feeling like some serious bodily harm is coming I am NOT pulling my gun.
Assuming that I'm not the aggressor, I have ZERO duty to "get my butt kicked", NONE.

I have a duty to ATTEMPT to retreat, IF I CAN DO SO IN PERFECT SAFETY.

It amazes me that it never occurs to a lot of people that the IDEAL way to avoid getting shot for being an aggressor is to not BE an aggressor.

People have DIED from the knockout "game".

If somebody follows your advice and "gets their butt kicked" and ends up with brain damage, can they expect you to support them... or change their diaper?

I avoid stupid people and the places they congregate, especially where they congregate to become impaired with alcohol or drugs, and hit each other.

If people insist upon bringing their stupidity to me, it's ALL on them.
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
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schmieg
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by schmieg »

Forty or fifty years ago, I wouldn't have been that concerned about getting into a fight with someone. I did it often enough that I could handle myself. If I couldn't win, I could certainly make the other guy's win a painful experience. Now, with a bad back and a few too many pounds, I wouldn't do so well and this is complicated by my inability to run or even walk fast due to my back problems. I certainly would consider a threat to initiate fisticuffs to be a threat of serious bodily harm or death.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by tbrew85 »

The last fight I was in (aside from restraining intoxicated and or mentally disturbed people as part of my job) was probably in 1985 or 86. I've never lost a fight, but I can count every fight I've been in on 1 hand, with digits left over. I'm usually pretty good at avoiding trouble.

In this case, I did not expect him to cross the lot, turn around and come back across the lot to confront me. I did not expect that my retort to "grow up" would escalate into something physical. But, I've rarely been in arguments with someone I don't know. In hindsight (and going forward) obviously I would have been better off just ignoring him. However, I'm still quite certain that my comments or any of my actions for that matter, would not meet any "fighting words" or "escalation" threshold in front of any jury. (Unless the pool was made up of carpet salesmen from northern Ohio maybe?) :mrgreen: Especially with witnesses and video evidence. Others will likely have different opinions.

Did I "go to the gun" to early? I don't think so. It absolutely changed his mind about exiting his vehicle.

Would actually drawing it at that point been too much? Yes.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by WestonDon »

WeinerDog wrote:My concern here and a couple of other instances posted is how quick the gun comes to mind. My gosh, the criteria is your life is in danger, not you might get your butt kicked. I think until I start feeling like some serious bodily harm is coming I am NOT pulling my gun.
Speaking only for myself, the gun comes to mind quickly because I am thinking about the gun when I am carrying. It's not always a conscious thought but it's there. It's kinda like driving a car and a kid runs out into the street. I don't think about swerving or hitting the brakes, I just do it.

It has been said that when you are armed every confrontation is an armed confrontation. That is very true. That fact alone makes any attack a potentially lethal attack, therefore in any physical attack my life IS in danger. I see nothing at all wrong in being prepared to deliver deadly force if/when an attack becomes imminent.
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Re: Defensive gun use today

Post by carmen fovozzo »

I see most of these posts are about when and when not to draw your gun....

They should touch more on how not to get to that situation. Like we were taught when we took our CHL class...to not say anything to instigate your attacker or have a big ego because you think your superman because you are armed..to avoid contact with road rage....that is what this was, road rage, IMO...
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