Definitely an option. My argument is that it forces you to get up close and personal. Also, what if I hit the creep in the head and kill him?carmen fovozzo wrote:Base Ball Bat..
"Why didn't you pull that gun?"
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- AmendII71
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it."
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Aim lower...Much lower..
Life is full of God given coincidences..
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- AmendII71
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Okay. What if I run up with my bat, hit him in the mid section, then he pulls his illegally concealed weapon and offs me.carmen fovozzo wrote:Aim lower...Much lower..
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it."
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
AmendII71 wrote:I carry my weapon to protect my family and myself personally from life threatening danger. NO OTHER REASON. The only exception that I keep in the back of my mind on this is the case where I could be in a gathering of people, and someone walks up and starts shooting up the place. Of course that can very reasonably be argued that my life would be in danger in that situation. Unless I was back home in Texas I wouldn't even consider pulling my weapon for the protection of property, ESPECIALLY NOT IN OHIO. Especially a store shoplifting situation. Not that I have a personal problem with someone who does, I just know today's legal society will be salivating in the bushes lusting for the chance to take someone down for using deadly force to stop a piece of crap from taking off with stolen property.
The interesting discussion to be had in this regard, is how do you handle someone not armed, inside your home, stealing your property. To me, this is the the real sticky one.
I believe one can use a reasonable amount of force, but less than deadly force, after calling 911, to protect one's property.
- AmendII71
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
What is your opinion of the "Less than Lethal" Rubber buckshot and Rubber Slugs that are out there. Maybe a good first round option in your home defense shotgun?Tweed Ring wrote:AmendII71 wrote:I carry my weapon to protect my family and myself personally from life threatening danger. NO OTHER REASON. The only exception that I keep in the back of my mind on this is the case where I could be in a gathering of people, and someone walks up and starts shooting up the place. Of course that can very reasonably be argued that my life would be in danger in that situation. Unless I was back home in Texas I wouldn't even consider pulling my weapon for the protection of property, ESPECIALLY NOT IN OHIO. Especially a store shoplifting situation. Not that I have a personal problem with someone who does, I just know today's legal society will be salivating in the bushes lusting for the chance to take someone down for using deadly force to stop a piece of crap from taking off with stolen property.
The interesting discussion to be had in this regard, is how do you handle someone not armed, inside your home, stealing your property. To me, this is the the real sticky one.
I believe one can use a reasonable amount of force, but less than deadly force, after calling 911, to protect one's property.
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it."
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
1.) Call 911 and claim victim status.
2.) Provide verbal direction to subject/subjects.
3.) Provide verbal direction and use of open hand tactics.
4.) Provide verbal direction and use chemical agent, if available.
5.) Provide verbal direction and use of impact weapon to restrain, if available.
6.) Provide verbal direction and use of impact weapon applying non-lethal techniques.
I'm an old school baton instructor trainer, and I use this example - I come home from teaching a baton instructor class to find Joe Crackhead hauling my television from my house out to his hoopty.
My first move is to claim my victim status, via my 911 call.
Then Joe, by his level of resistance to my request to put my stuff back into my house, may or not place me in a state of Jeopardy. Joe, by word and by deed, decides the level of reasonable force I am going to use, and if I have to engage in escalation of trauma. I will talk for 20 minutes, rather than fight for 5 minutes, as the troops are on the way, and time plays for me.
Simply put, these are clearly judgement calls. If he's just boosting my television, I might let that go. Conversely, if he has found 63 solid gold bars, I might ask him to split the take with me.
If you are asking for a definitive answer then I must quote one of my attorney friends, "It depends..."
2.) Provide verbal direction to subject/subjects.
3.) Provide verbal direction and use of open hand tactics.
4.) Provide verbal direction and use chemical agent, if available.
5.) Provide verbal direction and use of impact weapon to restrain, if available.
6.) Provide verbal direction and use of impact weapon applying non-lethal techniques.
I'm an old school baton instructor trainer, and I use this example - I come home from teaching a baton instructor class to find Joe Crackhead hauling my television from my house out to his hoopty.
My first move is to claim my victim status, via my 911 call.
Then Joe, by his level of resistance to my request to put my stuff back into my house, may or not place me in a state of Jeopardy. Joe, by word and by deed, decides the level of reasonable force I am going to use, and if I have to engage in escalation of trauma. I will talk for 20 minutes, rather than fight for 5 minutes, as the troops are on the way, and time plays for me.
Simply put, these are clearly judgement calls. If he's just boosting my television, I might let that go. Conversely, if he has found 63 solid gold bars, I might ask him to split the take with me.
If you are asking for a definitive answer then I must quote one of my attorney friends, "It depends..."
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
TR...the bat would save a lot of time... And conversation with the poor fellow..
Last edited by carmen fovozzo on Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life is full of God given coincidences..
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Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
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- AmendII71
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Okay. Well good discussion boys. Doesn't leave me with a very confident feeling. Sounds like I am better off saving for a lawyer instead of ammunition.
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it."
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
In a confrontation, a baseball bat could be used as a restraining and/or impact weapon. Giving direction or orders to one's opponent, keeps one breathing during the confrontation.carmen fovozzo wrote:TR...the bat would safe a lot of time... And conversation with the poor fellow..
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
I was always told if you are going to have a baseball bat in your possession be sure to have a ball also! That way your excuse is you were going to hit some balls!Tweed Ring wrote:In a confrontation, a baseball bat could be used as a restraining and/or impact weapon. Giving direction or orders to one's opponent, keeps one breathing during the confrontation.carmen fovozzo wrote:TR...the bat would safe a lot of time... And conversation with the poor fellow..
Abandon ye all HOPE!
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Cruiser wrote:I was always told if you are going to have a baseball bat in your possession be sure to have a ball also! That way your excuse is you were going to hit some balls!Tweed Ring wrote:In a confrontation, a baseball bat could be used as a restraining and/or impact weapon. Giving direction or orders to one's opponent, keeps one breathing during the confrontation.carmen fovozzo wrote:TR...the bat would safe a lot of time... And conversation with the poor fellow..
According to the Monadnock Escalation of Trauma body chart, that would be a yellow zone target...
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
I think that's what Carmen was alluding to when he gave the following advice for batting practice.Cruiser wrote:I was always told if you are going to have a baseball bat in your possession be sure to have a ball also! That way your excuse is you were going to hit some balls!
Aim lower...Much lower..
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- evan price
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Rural King can afford the loss of a plasma cutter much more than I can afford the use of an attorney from trying to protect their products. Much as I like Rural King (Their gun prices are sometimes even better than Vance's!) I am not going to get in the way of someone with a whole boatload of qualified immunity doing their job.
Also in Springfield, Barney Gumble is the Plow King:
I've heard there is also a Sofa King...Tweed Ring wrote:Supposedly, somewhere in Delaware County is a so-called Dumpster King, but I tend not to recognize dumpster royalty...
Also in Springfield, Barney Gumble is the Plow King:
"20% accurate as usual, Morty."
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Striking down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
Barney Gumble
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: "Why didn't you pull that gun?"
I couldn't run my business with out my dumpster...so if you try to steal that, well I'll have to decide at the time what force I will use..
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens