LEO perspective

Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: LEO perspective

Post by glocksmith »

IDK, I guess the discussions come full circle - back to reasonable suspicion and probable cause . IMHO my simply having a CHL and a firearm on my person is not grounds to suspect that it may be stolen. And, I'll bet that if we could brew up the stats on encounters between CHL holders and LEO's, we'd find that running serial numbers of firearms was irregulalry practiced. Again, officer discretion comes into play.
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: LEO perspective

Post by JediSkipdogg »

glocksmith wrote:IDK, I guess the discussions come full circle - back to reasonable suspicion and probable cause . IMHO my simply having a CHL and a firearm on my person is not grounds to suspect that it may be stolen. And, I'll bet that if we could brew up the stats on encounters between CHL holders and LEO's, we'd find that running serial numbers of firearms was irregulalry practiced. Again, officer discretion comes into play.
I guess the big question is how do you stop it? You can't make a blanket law that says an officer can't run it because then criminals would get off with stolen firearms. At best you could make a law that says officers can only run it if they have other charges, but that may result in people being charges with something stupid just to allow the officer to run the gun.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: LEO perspective

Post by glocksmith »

JediSkipdogg wrote:I guess the big question is how do you stop it? You can't make a blanket law that says an officer can't run it because then criminals would get off with stolen firearms.
True, but my guess is that 99.99999999% of Ohio CHL holders, on any given day, are NOT carrying stolen firearms. Seems backwards that we all must be inconvenienced because of the one in a million "bad apple".
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
Voice
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:52 am
Location: Mason, OH

Re: LEO perspective

Post by Voice »

Yeah, that's what RAS and/or PCI are *supposed* to take care of, but in practice don't even begin to touch.
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: LEO perspective

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Voice wrote:Yeah, that's what RAS and/or PCI are *supposed* to take care of, but in practice don't even begin to touch.
And that's where you bring it up in court if one gets arrested for an offense. Other than that, not much one can do for a violation of 4th amendment rights.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
xpd54
Posts: 656
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:43 am
Location: Dayton Area

Re: LEO perspective

Post by xpd54 »

glocksmith wrote:All the ORC and legalspeak aside, I'm just plain dumbfounded that any LEO would think that a LAC who went through all the expense, training and background checks to acquire and maintain a valid CHL...plus honest enough to notify....WOULD CARRY AROUND A STOLEN WEAPON...IN PUBLIC.
Forgive me for saying that this is a bit naive. It's like me trying to say that there are no crooks who work as LEOs. Of course there are crooked cops. Just like there are crooked CHL holders.
".....in the end we must still slosh our way through the factbound morass of reasonableness."
- Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia in Scott v. Harris

The views expressed in this post are my own. They have not been reviewed or approved by my employer.

My Blog
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: LEO perspective

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

xpd54 wrote:
glocksmith wrote:All the ORC and legalspeak aside, I'm just plain dumbfounded that any LEO would think that a LAC who went through all the expense, training and background checks to acquire and maintain a valid CHL...plus honest enough to notify....WOULD CARRY AROUND A STOLEN WEAPON...IN PUBLIC.
Forgive me for saying that this is a bit naive. It's like me trying to say that there are no crooks who work as LEOs. Of course there are crooked cops. Just like there are crooked CHL holders.
Yep. You only have to pass the background check once, then you've got 5 years to commit crimes before you have to be checked again.

:shock:

:wink:
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 5506
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: LEO perspective

Post by Werz »

glocksmith wrote:IDK, I guess the discussions come full circle - back to reasonable suspicion and probable cause . IMHO my simply having a CHL and a firearm on my person is not grounds to suspect that it may be stolen. And, I'll bet that if we could brew up the stats on encounters between CHL holders and LEO's, we'd find that running serial numbers of firearms was irregulalry practiced. Again, officer discretion comes into play.
That's called "life." Everyone bemoans "profiling," and all of us do it, all the time, every day; it's part of the survival skills which include carrying a firearm. How you present yourself does make a difference.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: LEO perspective

Post by glocksmith »

xpd54 wrote:[Forgive me for saying that this is a bit naive.
If you think that's "naive" aka naieve, then how about this: IMHO the whole purpose of obtaining a CHL is to be spared such treatment. I do all the requirements, jump through all the hoops, pay the fees, and play by the rules so I won't have to be treated like a criminal. They tell me to notify or else...so I do...and I'm rewarded with being disarmed and my weapons SN# called in to see if it's stolen...then I'm handed it back unloaded and told not to reload until we've gone our separate ways. ++++ me I guess. No good deed goes unpunished. Forgive me for saying it, but as the years go on I'm beginning to move closer to the POV that maybe by playing the CHL game I am part of the problem...the more you give "them" the more "they" want. I suppose it's naieve of me to think that the 2A was supposed to guarantee that I didn't have to go through all this just to exercise my right to bear arms?
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 19033
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: LEO perspective

Post by carmen fovozzo »

I remember posting when I was a newbie on this board and said that just because you have a CHL doesn't mean your a LAC.

I said there were gang banggers on the street that had CHL and I was pounced on by the powers to be on this forum...

Something change that I don't know about...?
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: LEO perspective

Post by glocksmith »

IDK Carmen, I wish you would have quoted someone from above, so we know which point you're talking about.

Seems the discussion is now leaning towards the whole notification thing. As I implied above, during my encounter with CPD, I'd have been better off if I'd just kept my mouth shut and not notified...and I have been better off if I was CC'ing without a CHL (since they never frisked me). Because I did everything by the book, the situation was made more complicated and unpleasant for me.
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: LEO perspective

Post by JediSkipdogg »

glocksmith wrote:
xpd54 wrote:[Forgive me for saying that this is a bit naive.
If you think that's "naive" aka naieve, then how about this: IMHO the whole purpose of obtaining a CHL is to be spared such treatment. I do all the requirements, jump through all the hoops, pay the fees, and play by the rules so I won't have to be treated like a criminal. They tell me to notify or else...so I do...and I'm rewarded with being disarmed and my weapons SN# called in to see if it's stolen...then I'm handed it back unloaded and told not to reload until we've gone our separate ways. ++++ me I guess. No good deed goes unpunished. Forgive me for saying it, but as the years go on I'm beginning to move closer to the POV that maybe by playing the CHL game I am part of the problem...the more you give "them" the more "they" want. I suppose it's naieve of me to think that the 2A was supposed to guarantee that I didn't have to go through all this just to exercise my right to bear arms?
I've come to learn over the years that a CHL means nothing more than one is given permission to take that gun on their hip and put a coat over it.

A CHL does not mean one is a law abiding citizen.
A CHL does not mean one has training to use that weapon properly and safely.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
BillytheKidder
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:41 am
Location: Westlake, Ohio - Melbourne, Florida

Re: LEO perspective

Post by BillytheKidder »

JediSkipdogg wrote: I've come to learn over the years that a CHL means nothing more than one is given permission to take that gun on their hip and put a coat over it.

A CHL does not mean one is a law abiding citizen.
A CHL does not mean one has training to use that weapon properly and safely.
I would guess that probably sums it up pretty well.
Proudly causing more problems than I solve, since 1950.
carmen fovozzo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 19033
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
Location: NEO

Re: LEO perspective

Post by carmen fovozzo »

glocksmith wrote:IDK Carmen, I wish you would have quoted someone from above, so we know which point you're talking about.

Seems the discussion is now leaning towards the whole notification thing. As I implied above, during my encounter with CPD, I'd have been better off if I'd just kept my mouth shut and not notified...and I have been better off if I was CC'ing without a CHL (since they never frisked me). Because I did everything by the book, the situation was made more complicated and unpleasant for me.
The Point.....Not all CHLH are LAC......see how easy that was...that is what I said many years ago and got negative remarks from it..
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: LEO perspective

Post by glocksmith »

IDK, I guess what I'm really saying was, look at the big picture. This was originally a discussion about the questionable practice of LEO's calling in a CHL holders weapons serial number to see if it is stolen. So, take a step back and look at all you have to go through to get to that point. You have to be 21 and a law abiding citizen who can pass all the requirements spelled out on the 4473 - then you have to pass the NICS background check. Then you have to complete and pass the state mandated 12 hour course, at your own expense of course. Then you must report to the local S.O. and be photographed, fingerprinted and pass another background check which is more detailed than the NICS the LGS did. Again, at your own expense. You have to "maintain" that valid CHL by obeying all laws...which you do. In the event of a traffic stop, you are required to notify...which you do. And, after all that, and here's the big point...you shouldn't be subjected to even greater scrutiny and suspicion by having your carry weapon undergo a background check to ensure its not stolen. That, to me, seems like mere harassment by the LEO...more a case of because they can than out of necessity. Is getting stopped for a tailight out grounds for calling in a weapons serial number? I'd say no...but then again I've been told I'm naieve :D
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
Post Reply