Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.

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ApexShootingTactics
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Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by ApexShootingTactics »

I am going to start posting my personal experiences with CHL holders. As an LEO I come in contact with several on a daily basis. My intention is show share the LEO point of view. Please know that I am 100% supportive of CHL, the 2nd Amendment and the right for people to defend themselves.

I responded to a car rental place who advised they found a handgun in a car that was recently turned in. I arrived, started an investigation…. I will spare all the details but finally contact the person who rented the car who has a valid CHL. The person described the gun and apologized for the incident. The handgun was given back to the person and no charges filed.

Here are my issues…

1. Gun left in a rental. Obviously not good and I don't think I need to explain why.

2. Gun was not loaded and no magazine was found. This makes #1 not so bad. However, when asked, the owner explained that the weapon is not carried loaded because, "I don't feel comfortable with a loaded gun". This is a training issue and this person needs to get over it. I run into this a lot during notification on traffic stops… "Sir, I have a CHL and I am carrying". Me, "Ok, where is the gun?". Driver, "It is in the glove compartment but don't worry it isn't loaded". Me, "Why isn't it loaded?". Driver,"Uhhhhh…. I am not comfortable with it being loaded".

3. The handgun was a Bersa Thunder .380 and the left grip was missing a screw and would fall off if not picked up carefully. The owner advised it has to be gripped just right so the grip won't shift during firing.

4. The handgun had a speckle of rust across the entire weapon. This wasn't a little speck it was obvious neglect.

At the end of this I really wanted to give the person my business card for Apex Shooting and Tactics and offer them a discount on a training class. I may be wrong but I feel that someone who is this irresponsible with the care and security of their weapon probably isn't educated on the concealed carry law and probably lacks proficiency with the weapon. Incidents like this have a way of ruining it for the rest of us.
-Andrew

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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by Aesinsp »

I for one very much appreciate the perspective you are sharing here. Thank you!
I can relate to not being comfortable carrying with one chambered until I had additional training above and beyond the basic CHL training.
Right or wrong, that's how it was at the time.
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Ray
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by Ray »

I also Thank You for sharing your encounters with CHL holders.
I however have never carried a unloaded firearm. That would just get you dead. I have carried for close to the last 40 yrs. & have always been locked & loaded. I would think if your not comfortable with carrying loaded then maybe you ought not to carry it Period........ As that's just as dangerous, in my opinion.

Anyways be safe in your duties & educate when you can, Sir............

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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by Paul »

I agree, he needs more training. I suppose because you were on duty you couldn't hand him your card even though that would have been good for all of us.
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by A_F »

Keep the encounters coming!

Maybe carry around some cards for this forum to give out...
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BobK
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by BobK »

ApexShootingTactics wrote:I may be wrong but I feel that someone who is this irresponsible with the care and security of their weapon probably isn't educated on the concealed carry law and probably lacks proficiency with the weapon. Incidents like this have a way of ruining it for the rest of us.
I agree the person was an idiot and problem waiting to happen.

However, the flip side of that is even stupid people have civil rights, including the right to a "shall issue" license if their background qualifies. Let's just hope they do not encounter a nasty case of the natural consequences of idiocy.
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kb8ywy
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by kb8ywy »

Tanks for taking your time to tell us of this. I wish that you could have the needed time to really instill in this person a need to get further instruction. He looks like a real cluster is about to happen. The firearm needs to be fixed and he needs some classes of some sort. I just hope this person takes your advice. again thank you. Allen/KB8YWY
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by SMMAssociates »

ApexShootingTactics:

First,thanks for the post - too many CHL folks see too many examples of LEO's being "the enemy", and this is a good way of helping that....

(We have a couple other LEO's on the board, btw.)

The guy you dealt with really needs more education. Whether you give him your business card (might be a departmental policy issue there) or just tell him that he should look for further training, as Allen said, he could be a disaster waiting to happen.

(If he doesn't want to carry, that's his choice, but it kind of makes you wonder....)

I'm mostly retired now, but have carried more or less 24/7/365 since sometime in 1968. Sort of started when I told dad that I wanted to buy a gun (I was one of those kids who sought out shooting galleries at just about any "fair" sort of venue). He told me that it had better come with a badge. So I got one.... Some kind of rent-a-cop, among other things.... I got my Special Commission just after OH decided that everybody had to have OPOTA training. Funny thing then - the class was composed of rentals and regular Officers - the rules changed some years later. Plenty of networking, and decent "don't kill the guy beside you" training like the CHL requirements today. More like 120 hours than 12, though.... (I forget how long it was.) The actual range time was inside an old Water Department building with no heat on a couple of Saturday AM's in February. Shotgun practice was outside in the snow....

Regards,
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Gun left in a rental.....reckless and should be made to pay for the stupidity in some way.....you let him off once he will think he can get away with something else..

Thanks for posting....hope you can do more...Stay Safe...
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by Brian D. »

This story makes me wonder what kind of shape the car renter's other important possessions might be in. Like his personal vehicle, another item that can be a deadly weapon.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by ArcherAce »

great idea for a thread.

Subscribed!
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TSiWRX
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by TSiWRX »

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... rental-car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^ Reminds me of the Tannerhills' nice LMT....... :P
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rDigital
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by rDigital »

Thanks for these encounters. It's good to see things from all sides. 8)
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dcludwig
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by dcludwig »

From my numerous years of experiences (not that many encounters, but enough) have taught me there are 1) Good LEO's and a few Bad LEO's. 2) There are some good CHLer's and a few bad CHLer's.

Common courtesy and respect are vital ingredients from both sides. My encounter with a someone rude and not properly trained (my 'infamous" YouTube encounter left a very bad impression on me. My only other encounter was with a PA state trooper who was polite and courteous. In my view, YOU were more that kind to the rental driver and I hope he truly realizes that. Time has done a lot to sooth my encounter and in fact will probably will be removing it in the near future. It has served my purpose (all I wanted was an apology which never be coming, I'm sure).

At the end of the day, I have found most all LEOs that I know are pro 2A and pro carry. And with the gatherings with fellow CHL'ers I have been pleasantly surprised by what a nice group of folk they are. We may not always agree with some finer points, but to a person, they have been pleasant to be around.

I too, am interested in hearing your own experiences, it might help some of us have a better understanding of what you come across and how you handled the situation. LEO and CHL are NOT enemies or shouldn't be painted as such.

My old CEO once said (I'm paraphrasing): "For every bad experience, that customer will tell 15 other people. With a good experiences, perhaps only 2 or 3 would be told." My statistics are not precise, but I think pretty close and, well, you get the idea. I have been criticized in my YouTube that A) I just wanted my 15 minutes of fame, or B) I was just HOPING something like this would happen so I could post it. Neither of which is true, but draw your own conclusions. My strict father taught me to be POLITE whenever I could be (in the video one person said "sir" twice - and it wasn't the LEO.

Training on BOTH sides is important too. Again, I'm curious to what your experiences have been. We are imperfect creatures, but some things are much more important in a situation. I really do respect LEOs and many of them have a tough jog dealing with a myriad of citizens.
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AmendII71
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Re: Encounter with CHL and rental car.

Post by AmendII71 »

I am glad to hear that the individual who left the weapon was not charged. I am sorry to hear that so many people are not using more common sense. I either carry the weapon loaded, with one in the chamber or I leave it at home.
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it, and not have it."
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