Dealing with bad guys

[phillip]

Not sure if maybe this should be in new thread? Please move if so?

Toward end of that ar15 was a question that haunts me:

Question, what if the BG doesn't have a weapon and intends on strong-arm robbery? You already have your firearm presented, what if he keeps coming? You can't legally shoot him at that point can you? Isn't there a force continuum? Do you then put your firearm away?

I'd sure like opinions on THIS!

[Chuck]

Not sure if maybe this should be in new thread? Please move if so?

Toward end of that ar15 was a question that haunts me:

Question, what if the BG doesn't have a weapon and intends on strong-arm robbery? You already have your firearm presented, what if he keeps coming? You can't legally shoot him at that point can you? Isn't there a force continuum? Do you then put your firearm away?

I'd sure like opinions on THIS!

Shoot him
There is nothing in Ohio law that requires the perp have a gun before you can shoot him
Many a person has been killed by bare hands,

Personally, with my heart condition, ANY fight I get in will likely give me a heart attack.
I don't fistfight anymore
And neither should you

The conditions you need to meet are:
It wasn't your fault; you didn't start it
You must have a reasonable and honest fear of danger, that the person was going to cause you serious bodily harm or death
You didn't have a duty to retreat; that is, you couldn't retreat from the scene safely and/or neither could the person you were protecting

If you are protecting another person, they have to have met those same conditions

I am not a lawyer,,,,

[BobK]

... You already have your firearm presented, what if he keeps coming? ...

I would shoot him.

My conclusion would be if he is aware that I am armed and is willing to continue coming at me, then that is demonstrating the intent to do me harm and I will conclude he believes he has the means to do so.

Remember, once I am armed, every encounter is an armed encounter. I am not going to willingly let some thug take my gun away and shoot me with it.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

phillip, what worries me is that you will think about shooting an attacker when you should actually be pulling the trigger.

Thinking about it now is okay.

When someone is about to attack you...

...how much time will you spend looking to see if they have a weapon?

...how much time will you spend deciding if you will shoot an unarmed attacker?

...how much time will you spend trying to determine how old they are?

...how much time will you spend deciding if you will shoot a minor?

...how much time will you spend deciding if you will shoot an elderly person?

...how much time will you spend deciding if you will shoot because the attacker is a different race or sex.

Work through this now and make these choices ahead of time.

You won't have the luxury of time later.

[carmen fovozzo]

Most BG with a half a brain will stop or run if you present a Gun.....then there are the ones w/o a brain....I think the odds are better with the brainy BG...If the BG has a weapon, shoot....if he does not, good luck in your decision to fire your weapon...First...

[Curzyk]

Thanks for posting the link to that post. It was a good read. I had not seen the previous posting of it before, so it was new to me. Perhaps after all the newer members have gotten value out of this dupe, the threads could be merged?

[bridog45040]

"Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren't fancy. "

The thought of never getting my 1911 back bothers me after spending what I have spent on it. But, it also makes me re-evaluate the financial cost versus reliability of the weapon I have chosen to carry. That said, there is now likely another purchase in my near future.

[Lone Wolf]

I don't much like the idea of not getting my carry weapon back either. I've had it for quite a while and I really like it. Having said that, if God forbid, my weapon ever has to clear leather in defense of myself or my family, getting the weapon back would probably be the furthest thing from my mind. It does make me consider getting something different to carry though.

LW

[Aesinsp]

"Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren't fancy. "

The thought of never getting my 1911 back bothers me after spending what I have spent on it. But, it also makes me re-evaluate the financial cost versus reliability of the weapon I have chosen to carry. That said, there is now likely another purchase in my near future.

I'm partial to some cheaper S&W myself. A trigger upgrade in the SD9/SW40VE is adequate for me.. in 3 of them I'm around 1k.. maybe a lil over.

[jbrewer8]

One of the things that I found interesting and quite contradictory to what I have read in here and heard in my CHL class was this:


"Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them. "


It makes perfect sense it's just that I often read that "The first one to call 911 is the victim." I remember asking that specific question in my class and was told to always call 911. I would do that anyway, I just never thought about the notion that a thug is probably not going to report me.

LW

I think the difference is that the thug/career criminal class will not, but the tough guy who is at least nominally or ordinarily a law-abiding citizen may indeed call 911 when presented with the business end of your firearm after having made a credible threat to end your life or cause great bodily harm.

I read a book a while back called Bogus Allegations. It details this situation exactly, the tough guy, normally would be seen as somewhat respectable, threatens a decent guy who made a stupid comment. The decent guy responds with (paraphrasing, it's been a while since I read it) 'If you ever come to my house again, I will shoot you'. I took it as a reasonable warning. The tough guy calls 911 and causes BIGTIME problems for the decent guy, who never called.

I highly recommend reading the book, it's only 2.99 on amazon (not sure if TOS allows me to post a link or not, but it's easy enough to find.) It deals with a real world situation that explains why you shouldn't talk - and your spouse shouldn't talk - without a lawyer, and many other things we need to think about, even in a situation where a gun was never presented or fired.

[BobK]

I read a book a while back called Bogus Allegations. . . .

I highly recommend reading the book, it's only 2.99 on amazon (not sure if TOS allows me to post a link or not, but it's easy enough to find.)...

Bogus Allegations

[fyrfytr310]

Fantastic read. Thank you very much!

[FormerNavy]

"Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren't fancy. "

The thought of never getting my 1911 back bothers me after spending what I have spent on it. But, it also makes me re-evaluate the financial cost versus reliability of the weapon I have chosen to carry. That said, there is now likely another purchase in my near future.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I've thought about this too, but I've come to the conclusion that the actual likelihood of me being involved in a self-defense shooting is statistically low. Therefore, if I lose my carry gun because it saved my life, so be it - I am willing to pay that price to get home to my family. I'll get another one...

[fyrfytr310]

"Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren't fancy. "

The thought of never getting my 1911 back bothers me after spending what I have spent on it. But, it also makes me re-evaluate the financial cost versus reliability of the weapon I have chosen to carry. That said, there is now likely another purchase in my near future.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I've thought about this too, but I've come to the conclusion that the actual likelihood of me being involved in a self-defense shooting is statistically low. Therefore, if I lose my carry gun because it saved my life, so be it - I am willing to pay that price to get home to my family. I'll get another one...

I'm with you on this one. $900 for my H&K... I'll pay that over and over again if the real gain is my life.

[BB62]

One of the things that I found interesting and quite contradictory to what I have read in here and heard in my CHL class was this:

"Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them. "...

I had a student tell me that a bad guy had done just that - call 911 - and my student hadn't! Things eventually worked out okay, but...