What to do in restricted zones?

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conspire
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What to do in restricted zones?

Post by conspire »

My situation is that a friend of mine goes to a university 40 miles from me, and I want to carry for the trip. If once I'm there, and lock my firearm in a locked case in the car, and store the ammo in the trunk for example, is this legal since it's a "no carry zone"? Thanks for your input!
SMMAssociates
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Conspire:

If you've got a CHL, you can park the gun in your glovebox or leave it in a "steal-me" box. Both must be locked, and the latter must be in plain sight.

(If you're not driving a car - van, SUV, pickup - and don't have a glovebox, the "steal-me" is OK.)

Locked in the trunk, empty, etc., would be fine with or without a CHL.

2 notes: CHL or not, this is NOT valid for schools K-12, and the "locked in the trunk" rules require that the gun be empty, with the ammunition in a separate container. IOW, just popping out the magazine doesn't count, whether there's one in the pipe or not.

There's a bill in the legislature to remove the "University Exception" from the law (bet you can't guess that the Democrats are responsible for it), and another one that will make a gun "unloaded" (legally) if the magazine is removed.

If you haven't got a CHL, and are old enough, and otherwise not legally prevented, GET ONE!

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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TunnelRat
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Re: What to do in restricted zones?

Post by TunnelRat »

conspire wrote:My situation is that a friend of mine goes to a university 40 miles from me, and I want to carry for the trip. If once I'm there, and lock my firearm in a locked case in the car, and store the ammo in the trunk for example, is this legal since it's a "no carry zone"? Thanks for your input!
Yup, this is prolly gonna be okay so long as you have a CHL. The big deal is that if the gun is loaded, it must either be on you, or locked in the glove box or in a locked container in plain sight. If you unload it, you can leave it either locked in the glove box or in a locked case that doesn't need to be in plain sight (but make sure there is no ammo at all in the car).

If your friend at the university doesn't have a CHL, then you dare not leave him alone in the car with the firearm. In that case whenever you aren't actually carrying it, you would need to leave it in the trunk unloaded, with the ammunition in a separate container.
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

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Sig Shooter
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Post by Sig Shooter »

Are you sure that it has to be in plain sight if it is in a case on University property? The only thing I can find says it must be in a locked vehicle or in the process of being placed in a locked vehicle. That seems like it could be anywhere as long as the vehicle is locked since you aren't transporting it. I thought plain sight in a case was just one of the options for transporting and not a requirement in a parked vehicle on a college campus.
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Re: What to do in restricted zones?

Post by Buckshot »

tommcnaughton wrote:
conspire wrote:My situation is that a friend of mine goes to a university 40 miles from me, and I want to carry for the trip. If once I'm there, and lock my firearm in a locked case in the car, and store the ammo in the trunk for example, is this legal since it's a "no carry zone"? Thanks for your input!
Yup, this is prolly gonna be okay so long as you have a CHL. The big deal is that if the gun is loaded, it must either be on you, or locked in the glove box or in a locked container in plain sight. If you unload it, you can leave it either locked in the glove box or in a locked case that doesn't need to be in plain sight (but make sure there is no ammo at all in the car).

In that case whenever yIf your friend at the university doesn't have a CHL, then you dare not leave him alone in the car with the firearm.ou aren't actually carrying it, you would need to leave it in the trunk unloaded, with the ammunition in a separate container.
Tom McN and all,

I still can't reconcile your statement "In that case whenever yIf your friend at the university doesn't have a CHL, then you dare not leave him alone in the car with the firearm.ou aren't actually carrying it, you would need to leave it in the trunk unloaded, with the ammunition in a separate container" with what I can read in the law and teh AG's book.

As long as it is locked in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box and the friend DOES NOT HAVE A KEY for same, why can't he leave it loaded in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box?

That is EXACTLY what the glove compartment/"steal-me" box rule is about in the first place!

Buckshot
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Re: What to do in restricted zones?

Post by TunnelRat »

Buckshot wrote:Tom McN and all,

I still can't reconcile your statement "In that case whenever yIf your friend at the university doesn't have a CHL, then you dare not leave him alone in the car with the firearm.ou aren't actually carrying it, you would need to leave it in the trunk unloaded, with the ammunition in a separate container" with what I can read in the law and teh AG's book.

As long as it is locked in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box and the friend DOES NOT HAVE A KEY for same, why can't he leave it loaded in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box?

That is EXACTLY what the glove compartment/"steal-me" box rule is about in the first place!
If you have a CHL you may transport a loaded firearm in a vehicle in several ways (ORC 2923.16):
1) in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or
2) securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or
3) in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked.

If you do not have a CHL, ORC 2923.16 wrote: (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose

(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.
Probably the "No person" in parts "B" and "C" is particularly gonna refer to the guy with no CHL, as the law goes into much greater detail about the guy who does have one.

Probably the controlling part has to be:"unless it is unloaded".

Perhaps you have a point in that the unloaded firearm could be left in the car with the unlicensed individual so long as it is stored according to C (1), (3), or (4).

Conceivably, according to section "B", you could even leave a loaded firearm in the trunk.

I may be mistaken (I often am...), but I figure far and away the easiest way to handle this would be to leave the firearm unloaded and in the trunk if you're not gonna be there along with your friend. It would surely save an unpleasant hassle with campus cops who may not have a copy of this convoluted law along with them....
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
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Re: What to do in restricted zones?

Post by Buckshot »

tommcnaughton wrote:
Buckshot wrote:Tom McN and all,

I still can't reconcile your statement "In that case whenever yIf your friend at the university doesn't have a CHL, then you dare not leave him alone in the car with the firearm.ou aren't actually carrying it, you would need to leave it in the trunk unloaded, with the ammunition in a separate container" with what I can read in the law and teh AG's book.

As long as it is locked in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box and the friend DOES NOT HAVE A KEY for same, why can't he leave it loaded in the glove compartment or "steal-me" box?

That is EXACTLY what the glove compartment/"steal-me" box rule is about in the first place!
If you have a CHL you may transport a loaded firearm in a vehicle in several ways (ORC 2923.16):
1) in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or
2) securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or
3) in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked.

If you do not have a CHL, ORC 2923.16 wrote: (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose

(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.
Probably the "No person" in parts "B" and "C" is particularly gonna refer to the guy with no CHL, as the law goes into much greater detail about the guy who does have one.

Probably the controlling part has to be:"unless it is unloaded".

Perhaps you have a point in that the unloaded firearm could be left in the car with the unlicensed individual so long as it is stored according to C (1), (3), or (4).

Conceivably, according to section "B", you could even leave a loaded firearm in the trunk.

I may be mistaken (I often am...), but I figure far and away the easiest way to handle this would be to leave the firearm unloaded and in the trunk if you're not gonna be there along with your friend. It would surely save an unpleasant hassle with campus cops who may not have a copy of this convoluted law along with them....
I guess I am not making myself plain enough.

If I have a CCW I may have my handgun in my vehicle in one of the three legal ways.

Ont of those ways is on my body in a holster in plailn sight.

The other two ways are locked in a lcoking glove compartment or locked in a locking box in plain sight.

We are together this far, right?

If I do not give the passenger a key to the glove compartmen or the locked box, then the passenger has NO ACCESS to that loaded firearm. That is the "logic" behnidn the locked glove compartment or locked box.

No unlicensed person IS transporting the firearm, remember that it is my vehicle, not his.

The passenger (unlicensed person) has no access to fhe loaded firearm, he is not transporting it (he is the passenger, not the operator, of the vehicle).

I can't see any problem unless or until the passenger is permitted a key to the vehicle and/or the locked box. At least in my vehicles, the passenger DOES NOT get a key to the vehicle. There are NO spare vehicle keys stored in or about the vehicle, they are on my person. As long as I take the PRIMARY key for the locked box out of the vehicle (backup key on my person again) the passenger and the loaded firearm are completely isolated from each other unless the passenger commits a break and entry to the locked glove compartment or locked box.

I still have not seen a logical argument against my views. Your arguments are very circular to me. He has no CCW so by law he has no CCW firearm and by the CCW law I carry under I can permit him no access to mine, yet I supposedly must not just secure my loaded firearm but unload it for some reason just because he is in the car, even though he has no access to the firearm?

Buckshot
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Re: What to do in restricted zones?

Post by TunnelRat »

Buckshot wrote:If I have a CCW I may have my handgun in my vehicle in one of the three legal ways.
Right. You have a CHL; there is no problem on your part.
Buckshot wrote:If I do not give the passenger a key to the glove compartmen or the locked box, then the passenger has NO ACCESS to that loaded firearm.

Perhaps, but the law clearly states that: "(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:"

I think your friend could get into trouble if you leave him alone in the car with a loaded firearm, even if the loaded firearm is locked up. Hey, it's just too easy to unload it if you have to leave it with an unlicensed friend.
Buckshot wrote:That is the "logic" behnidn the locked glove compartment or locked box.
Maybe. I am not at all sure what the "logic" is supposed to be behind many of these provisions.

I think many have concluded that the "logic" behind the vehicle carry portion of the law is that it was intended as a poison pill -- to hinder passage of the original bill and to allow for plentiful arrests should it ever pass into law.
Buckshot wrote:No unlicensed person IS transporting the firearm, remember that it is my vehicle, not his.
No. Sorry, that argument does not fly. If you are not in the car, and your unlicensed friend is in the car, then your unlicensed friend can easily be construed as transporting the firearm.
Buckshot wrote:The passenger (unlicensed person) has no access to fhe loaded firearm, he is not transporting it (he is the passenger, not the operator, of the vehicle).
I dunno, if you aren't in the vehicle and he is, then he is the transporter. Maybe you could argue that he is only a passenger and is himself a transportee, but he is liable to have to make that argument in court.
Buckshot wrote:I can't see any problem unless or until the passenger is permitted a key to the vehicle and/or the locked box. At least in my vehicles, the passenger DOES NOT get a key to the vehicle. There are NO spare vehicle keys stored in or about the vehicle, they are on my person. As long as I take the PRIMARY key for the locked box out of the vehicle (backup key on my person again) the passenger and the loaded firearm are completely isolated from each other unless the passenger commits a break and entry to the locked glove compartment or locked box.
Yeah, I like it. I would like to agree with you, 'cept the law says an unlicensed person cannot have a loaded weapon in a vehicle.
Buckshot wrote:I still have not seen a logical argument against my views. Your arguments are very circular to me.
Don't blame me for the screwy law...
Buckshot wrote:He has no CCW so by law he has no CCW firearm and by the CCW law I carry under I can permit him no access to mine, yet I supposedly must not just secure my loaded firearm but unload it for some reason just because he is in the car, even though he has no access to the firearm?
Bingo! Yes. You've got it.

Of course, you understand that free advice is worth what you pay for it.

Your original question was:
If once I'm there, and lock my firearm in a locked case in the car, and store the ammo in the trunk for example, is this legal since it's a "no carry zone"?
We have just been trying to respond. The law is new and difficult. It was written against much resistance. Even now new legislation is being introduced -- some to improve the law and some to make it even more difficult. There are those who would very much like to see the campus carry portion removed altogether.

Something to keep in mind is that campus police are not going to argue with you about the law. They aren't going to cite chapter and verse, nor are they likely to listen as you attempt to do so. If this matter ever comes to light (hey, what are the odds that you are going to get caught?), the most likely course of action would be to arrest your friend for improper carry of a firearm in a vehicle and let him settle the matter in court.
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
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