Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activist

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gmhiggins
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by gmhiggins »

charben wrote:While I deplore the actions of the campus police, I have to say that I do not agree with Mikes tactics. I have a big problem with someone--anyone--showing up at an event in a not-so-subtle attempt to co-opt the event for their own cause. This was an unnecessarily provacative move that has resulted in nothing more than rile up the committed on both sides. I highly doubt that any fence-sitters on the subject of student concealed carry were persuaded positively.

What tactics? Going to a rally/protest/gathering wearing an empty holster he had been wearing all day long?

The empty holster protest is a highly coordinated, national protest. I guess the "tactic" of participating isn't acceptable, if it is anywhere near another protest :roll:
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fisher
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by fisher »

I was not aware until now that it was Empty Holster Week at college campuses across the country. The event was organized well before this vigil was.
http://concealedcampus.org/empty-holster-protest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems even more likely to me that this was possibly an attack to silence a voice that was not falling in line with their narrative.
Last edited by fisher on Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bersa45
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by Bersa45 »

The empty holster protest stirs up questions from onlookers and other students. They wear the holsters all day in every class room they are in. It was received pretty good when my son was doing it. Of course we probably got another kind of student up here then at OSU :!:

Mike continue with your protest/education of the masses at OSU, you have alot of support. Good job carry on :mrgreen:
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JediSkipdogg
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by JediSkipdogg »

djthomas wrote:Again I'm anxious to hear the tapes. Saying "I think he has a gun" is a lot different than saying "He is carrying a gun."
I am anxious as well as there is ALOT of interpretation. Someone can call and go like this....

Caller: I see a man standing in a crowd with an empty gun holster
Dispatcher: Do you see the gun
Caller: No, but I can't see his hands
Dispatcher: Thank you for the call

Then the dispatcher goes into dispatch mode:

Dispatcher: Units respond to (location) hall for a male wearing (clothing description) possibly with a gun. Complainant cannot see the gun but sees an empty holster.


Now, as a police officer, HOW do YOU respond to that? My guess is Code 3 and then upon arrival with your holster unsnapped and a 50/50 chance of gun in hand once you see the subject with his arms crossed. Until you can verify no gun, I'm assuming the majority of police will respond as a gun call.
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BobK
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by BobK »

djthomas wrote:Lot of "thoughts" and "wonders" and "under the impressions" but the big question is did anybody actually see a gun?
Let's not forget that even open carrying a handgun is not illegal on Ohio State University campus. It is illegal to conceal carry a handgun under authority of a CHL, but there is no law against open carry on campus.
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by djthomas »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Now, as a police officer, HOW do YOU respond to that? My guess is Code 3 and then upon arrival with your holster unsnapped and a 50/50 chance of gun in hand once you see the subject with his arms crossed. Until you can verify no gun, I'm assuming the majority of police will respond as a gun call.
Admittedly this is a bit different because it's a college campus where concealed carry is illegal but in my area it would probably be a Code 2 response. We've gotten MWAG calls before and Code 3 is never authorized unless there's a specific threat.

But the thing that throws this off a bit is the fact that Mike was told by the officers "we were told you had a gun" or some words to that effect. Granted the officers are free to lie to Mike for whatever investigative purpose they want but somewhere along this game of telephone the message was delivered that he WAS armed and that's different than "may" be armed. My big question is who misinterpreted the situation or worse, deliberately misled?

The other thing is that once it's been determined that there is no gun (i.e. within the first 30 seconds of the encounter) and he doesn't have any warrants you cut him loose because you no longer have a reason to detain him. The investigation is over at that point. Conveniently detaining him in the cruiser until the rally is over is crosses the line.
BobK wrote:
djthomas wrote:Lot of "thoughts" and "wonders" and "under the impressions" but the big question is did anybody actually see a gun?
Let's not forget that even open carrying a handgun is not illegal on Ohio State University campus. It is illegal to conceal carry a handgun under authority of a CHL, but there is no law against open carry on campus.
As a non-student this is something that has crossed my mind more than once ... Unfortunately for a student or staff member that's almost assuredly a good way to be expelled or fired.
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Mrs. Daspirate
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by Mrs. Daspirate »

gmhiggins wrote:
charben wrote:While I deplore the actions of the campus police, I have to say that I do not agree with Mikes tactics. I have a big problem with someone--anyone--showing up at an event in a not-so-subtle attempt to co-opt the event for their own cause. This was an unnecessarily provacative move that has resulted in nothing more than rile up the committed on both sides. I highly doubt that any fence-sitters on the subject of student concealed carry were persuaded positively.

What tactics? Going to a rally/protest/gathering wearing an empty holster he had been wearing all day long?

The empty holster protest is a highly coordinated, national protest. I guess the "tactic" of participating isn't acceptable, if it is anywhere near another protest :roll:
It is a highly coordinated, national protest that is purposefully designed to get people to notice the empty holster. I am in no way against anyone's right to participate and go where they will, but you should choose your actions during that protest with care - you want people to notice your protest, not turn them against with the wrong attitude.

Attending a vigil for what we have seen firsthand is very emotionally charged issue, while engaged in your own purposefully visible protest, particularly when that protest is for a right that has a good chance of angering the people who set up the vigil, might have been inadvisable for the cause.

That's a separate issue than the topic of this thread though. The police were still VERY wrong, regardless of Mike's actions and whether I agree with them.
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blah
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by blah »

OK so Mike was at a rally against hate crime and was wearing an empty holster.... so a 2A activist can't also be against hate crime? Is that was I see a couple people saying?

Mike did nothing wrong. He was treated poorly and his rights were violated. Plain and simple.
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by Mrs. Daspirate »

blah wrote:Mike did nothing wrong. He was treated poorly and his rights were violated. Plain and simple.
Mike did nothing illegal. Nobody has said that his rights weren't violated or that the police actions were in any way justified.

All we have said is that we disagree with Mike's actions.
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by BobK »

I agree with his actions and support him.
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by XDSC9G30 »

Mrs. Daspirate wrote:
blah wrote:Mike did nothing wrong. He was treated poorly and his rights were violated. Plain and simple.
Mike did nothing illegal. Nobody has said that his rights weren't violated or that the police actions were in any way justified.

All we have said is that we disagree with Mike's actions.
People all have different viewpoints on how to go about certain things. Keep in mind Mike was not there only to show he was in support of the 2nd amendment but he was also there stating he was also agains thate crimes, which is whta this vigil was supposedly about.

Personally I could not care less about being "Politically correct" which seems to be the issue here. "Politically Correctness" is ruining people rights by taking away the 1st amendment. By trying to dance around words and actions your points can get very watered down or lost in translation causing confusion and misunderstandings.

I have to competely stand by Mike on this one because he is doing more than just about everyone on this and most forums to support the 2nd amendment. I said most not all because OFCC as a whole does incredible things to help the cause which means there are a few individuals here who obviously are out there helping out.

Mike did nothing wrong, which is blantanly obvious being that if he did something wrong he would still be in jail or at least have pending charges in the court system. So you can disagree with his actions, but you can not say he did anything wrong. Maybe you folks as individuals can not stand up for your rights or opinions but that is your own issue. Mike did just that and some of you are trying to say what he did is wrong or whatever and somehow are still supposedly in support of the constitution. IIRC there is only one amendment before the second and it has something to do with free speech (it is there because it is slightly more important).
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by DasPirate »

XDSC9G30 wrote:Maybe you folks as individuals can not stand up for your rights or opinions but that is your own issue. Mike did just that and some of you are trying to say what he did is wrong or whatever and somehow are still supposedly in support of the constitution. IIRC there is only one amendment before the second and it has something to do with free speech (it is there because it is slightly more important).
You need to chill with the accusations. You genuinely don't know a thing about when, where, why, or how most of us stand up for our rights and opinions. You also could do with some ability to distinguish between wrong and illegal. I agree that what he did was inadvisable and in all likelihood did little to help his cause.

I'll tell you what, since you're on your high horse and accusing us of not standing up for our rights, I propose the following to you: I am outraged enough over Mike's false arrest that I am planning to parade around OSU's campus next Sunday (the first available time I've got) wearing an empty holster and telling everyone who's interested about the injustice of the event. Will you join me and put your money where your mouth is?
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by Klingon00 »

I assume by "empty" holster, y'all mean fully unloaded holster right? :lol:

Mike, I wish you luck in dealing with the seemingly bogus charges. Perhaps a scheduled public get together with visible holsters might be in order?
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by mreising »

DasPirate wrote:
XDSC9G30 wrote:Maybe you folks as individuals can not stand up for your rights or opinions but that is your own issue. Mike did just that and some of you are trying to say what he did is wrong or whatever and somehow are still supposedly in support of the constitution. IIRC there is only one amendment before the second and it has something to do with free speech (it is there because it is slightly more important).
You need to chill with the accusations. You genuinely don't know a thing about when, where, why, or how most of us stand up for our rights and opinions. You also could do with some ability to distinguish between wrong and illegal. I agree that what he did was inadvisable and in all likelihood did little to help his cause.

I'll tell you what, since you're on your high horse and accusing us of not standing up for our rights, I propose the following to you: I am outraged enough over Mike's false arrest that I am planning to parade around OSU's campus next Sunday (the first available time I've got) wearing an empty holster and telling everyone who's interested about the injustice of the event. Will you join me and put your money where your mouth is?
I will be at the NRA Annual Meeting, otherwise I would join you. Just be sure to get the requisite approval for an OC event from the powers that be if you wish to coordinate it here.

eta: As far as Mike's actions go, he was well within his rights to do what he did and those rights were violated by OSU PD.
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Re: Campus Police Detain and Draw Weapons on Student Activis

Post by XDSC9G30 »

DasPirate wrote:
XDSC9G30 wrote:Maybe you folks as individuals can not stand up for your rights or opinions but that is your own issue. Mike did just that and some of you are trying to say what he did is wrong or whatever and somehow are still supposedly in support of the constitution. IIRC there is only one amendment before the second and it has something to do with free speech (it is there because it is slightly more important).
You need to chill with the accusations. You genuinely don't know a thing about when, where, why, or how most of us stand up for our rights and opinions. You also could do with some ability to distinguish between wrong and illegal. I agree that what he did was inadvisable and in all likelihood did little to help his cause.

I'll tell you what, since you're on your high horse and accusing us of not standing up for our rights, I propose the following to you: I am outraged enough over Mike's false arrest that I am planning to parade around OSU's campus next Sunday (the first available time I've got) wearing an empty holster and telling everyone who's interested about the injustice of the event. Will you join me and put your money where your mouth is?
Unfortunately I have to work every weekend while in school, except the few (days not entire weekends) I am lucky enough to have off. Unless the plan is to have it after 7pm or so in which case I could head down and participate if I get off at my normal time. (its a 2.5 hr drive one way for me). When I had enough advance notice I did get off work for the Party in the Park and got to put a few faces to the names on here.

I am unworried if you did not like my opinion and took it as a personal attack but that is your choice, it was not intended as such. There were also no accusations of an individual, if you read it then you could understand that it was a very broad based statement. I thought about going back through to make a disclaimer to say this wasn't directed at anyone specific in this thread, just didn't find it appropriate.

Also no high horse here, I know I do not consistantly go out of my way to help the 2nd amendment cause but I also will not say what Mike did was "inadvisable" because I don't even understand who/what should advise one of their individual rights, other than the constitution.

We are all in agreement that Mike was mistreated and targeted unfairly. What everyone is dwelling on is their dislike of what he was doing, even though everyone acknowledges what he did was legal (which is the only right/wrong....Legal=right, illegal=wrong)
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