Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by bignflnut »

1.If you're going to lie, shouldn't you make it somewhat believable? A "magic trigger" theory is your salvation?

2 THIS is the best your fixers can come up with?
3 Are rehearsals not recorded? (Isn't it rehearsal for the camera people and such also? We're not using expensive film anymore...)
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by catfish86 »

Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by docachna »

catfish86 wrote:...... Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.
I'm sure his lawyers prepped him extensively for the interview, so if that is where he's going with this, that may well explain why he was so specific ("I did not PULL THE TRIGGER", as opposed to "I did not FIRE THE WEAPON").
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by catfish86 »

I think they are trying to egg on a firestorm of criticism about "you can't fire a gun without pulling the trigger" so they can point to the ignorance of the gun community that some weapons can be fired without pulling the trigger.

I was introducing my nephew to shooting on a farm a few years back. Before we ever left the house he was drilled on the four rules until he could recite them. As he was shooting a .22 rifle it failed to fire and he pointed the rifle down and started to turn. I grasped the rifle to keep it pointed down range. I then took control, put it on safe, dropped the magazine and noted there was still a round in the chamber that did not eject. I continued to work the slide and it fired. Apparently working the slide slammed it into the rim, setting it off. Because we adhered to the rules nothing happened other than my nephew got a good lesson in why you FOLLOW THE DARN RULES no matter what and that safeties are not foolproof. To this day he is appropriately paranoid about following those rules.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by bignflnut »

catfish86 wrote:Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
I appreciate you driving us towards a possible truth.

Baldwin would probably love nothing more than to imbue a spirit into the hammer of a Colt and scare people to death that these damn things just go off half cocked. I don't know that he's capable of understanding or expressing this, even with script in hand.

It would surprise this reader if this argument came before a jury, much more if people would attempt to consider it. How would this defense be made without Baldwin's direct testimony? Are we going to put an award-winning (?) actor on the stand in his own defense?

How many trigger pulls will the jury witness?

Perhaps they can call Binger to point the muzzle directly at the jury foreperson and hope the hammer drops randomly. Perhaps the motion of extending and locking the elbows will cause the hammer to move. Who's going to thrust the piece of Americana forward and back in this manner, hoping to drop the hammer?
Will we call Hickock45, or enter this video into evidence?
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by M-Quigley »

catfish86 wrote:Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
How is anyone going to know if it's true or not, if he is claiming that he partially pulled the hammer back? An examination of the handgun will probably reveal that it is technically possible, although since it's a replica of a Colt SAA IDK if that particular replica had some kind of safety mechanism to prevent this, like a hammer block or something. There is no video to prove what happened, so without evidence to prove he's lying his word will probably be accepted.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by catfish86 »

The thing is the trigger being pulled is a red herring anyway. He is still responsible for unsafe firearm handling resulting in death...

BTW MQuigley, I think you are right. Turns out this review mentions there is a transfer bar on the F.lli Pietta long Colt 45 revolver which is what the Sheriff stated was the firearm in question:

https://www.guncritic.com/product/f-lli ... revolvers/
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by schmieg »

M-Quigley wrote:
catfish86 wrote:Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
How is anyone going to know if it's true or not, if he is claiming that he partially pulled the hammer back? An examination of the handgun will probably reveal that it is technically possible, although since it's a replica of a Colt SAA IDK if that particular replica had some kind of safety mechanism to prevent this, like a hammer block or something. There is no video to prove what happened, so without evidence to prove he's lying his word will probably be accepted.
I heard on the news yesterday that he stated that he did pull the hammer halfway back and let it go, so it's quite possible that it did not get to the half cock position and that there were not the four detents that are present in some of the SAA revolvers.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by TSiWRX »

catfish86 wrote:He is still responsible for unsafe firearm handling resulting in death...
^ I think this is the only thing that *should* matter.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by carmen fovozzo »

catfish86 wrote:Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
If the hammer is half way back, how is it there is enough momentum to ignite the primer ?
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by schmieg »

carmen fovozzo wrote:
catfish86 wrote:Actually he may not be wrong. A Colt Single Action Army can be fired by pulling the hammer half way and then letting it go. Many cowboys would carry with an empty chamber beneath the hammer to avoid accidental discharges while riding. This does NOT however absolve Alec Baldwin who still should NOT have been pulling the hammer back. He also SHOULD have checked the weapon for ammo of any type. He also should have familiarized himself with the firearm he was handling and then would have known not to pull the hammer back unless he intended to fire it.

I know there are memes going around Facebook and social media, including by the NRA. Don't embarrass yourself. Again, he is still responsible for his handling of the firearm but don't get sucked into mocking him for this. It looks bad later if it turns out to be true. HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIRING THE WEAPON, just not by pulling the trigger.

Demonstrated by Hickock45. At about 3:13 is the first time he does it but it goes off like a charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldHPNns ... l=hickok45
If the hammer is half way back, how is it there is enough momentum to ignite the primer ?
Watch the video. Hickock45 hardly touches the hammer with that axe handle. It doesn't take much force. If the sear detent is worn as Hickock45 stated is likely on an older gun, it can be pulled back further.

Having watched the Baldwin interview again, I think that a prosecutor could make a case for negligent homicide with Baldwin's own statements.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by WhyNot »

Having watched the Baldwin interview again, I think that a prosecutor could make a case for negligent homicide with Baldwin's own statements.
At this late, late, extra late date after the event I think the case is being made NOT to charge AB with anything :P .
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by EricTheBald »

My theory:

1. Alec Baldwin is remarkably ignorant about firearms.
2. Alec Baldwin appears to have little to no training in firearm safety.

Therefore, he would not instinctively exercise trigger discipline and instead of having his booger-hook alongside the frame as any of us would, it was on the trigger.

This would explain how he could simultaneously pull the trigger and not THINK he pulled the trigger.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by schmieg »

WhyNot wrote:
Having watched the Baldwin interview again, I think that a prosecutor could make a case for negligent homicide with Baldwin's own statements.
At this late, late, extra late date after the event I think the case is being made NOT to charge AB with anything :P .
I don't know that his statements constitute a slam dunk case, but they certainly provide the basis for a charge. Personally, I don't think he will be charged because he is a liberal icon.
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Re: Shooting death and injury on Alec Baldwin movie set.

Post by docachna »

I'm not familiar with older pistols (not even certain what he was using), but in talk radio discussions here in Nashville, some self-proclaimed "experts" have insisted that if the hammer was partially pulled back, and then dropped before locking at half-cock, the cylinder would not have rotated enough to put a cartridge and its primer under the firing pin, and the previous cartridge (if any) would have been past the firing pin, thus, putting us back to the theory that the only way it could have fired was via a trigger pull.

Talk amongst yaselves..............
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