Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

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catfish86
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Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by catfish86 »

https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-auth ... for-my-son

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/a ... g-georgia/

The first article is the general news on Fox about the incident. The second is a review in the law, it being important to note that the magazine leans conservative (ie it is not an ACLU lip service rag).

Basics: white retired Georgia detective had a gun stolen out of a truck. He spots a black man jogging, calls 911 and tells his son to get armed and they get in a pickup truck and catch up to the runner, ordering him to stop. (OK, reality check, you are a black man in Georgia on the street and three white guys with guns in a pickup truck tell you to stop they want to talk to you...) They end up in front (there is video) of the truck and a tussle develops out of view of the camera. Gunfire sounds and the black man falls dead.

The shooter is claiming self-defense. Not buying it. They had no knowledge that this guy did anything, you can't just get in your truck and start tracking down suspects with guns. This serves as a caution tale, like the OK pharmacist who "finished" a robber or the Montana homeowner who setup an ambush of a garage burglar. You should think before you act with guns, with rights come responsibilities.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by bignflnut »

This story is front page of Drudge this morning...
There seems to be video...

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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

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Granted they will have a chance to defend themselves, but I would be interested to know what facts are in their defense. What is crazy is that they were not immediately arrested and that only now are outside parties being brought in. The moment a former investigator for the prosecutor comes across the desk a phone call to the state GBI should have been made. Idiots like these put honest people's rights at risk. The possible factors are race and colleague courtesy, either of which is inexcusable given that the investigators apparently had this video immediately after the incident. Apparently these guys had nothing other than a prior incident of a gun stolen from his truck (the rash of burglaries boiled down to this was the only police report in the neighborhood) and there was a black man jogging in the neighborhood.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by Bruenor »

The part of the video I couldn't understand was the jogger jogs past the pickup truck on the right side, then turns in front of the truck, crosses to the left side and is immediately in a physical altercation with the armed male there, at which point he is shot. Wouldn't you as the jogger, turn around and go in the opposite direction and not pass the truck at all, or just keep moving past the truck and not engage ? I couldn't hear audio from the poor phone video from the 'chase car' so not sure what was said.

I wouldn't want to be defending that as a self defense case, looked more like vigilante justice. I would be surprised if the claim of self defense succeeds.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by catfish86 »

Thing is the dad is a retired law enforcement officer and should know better.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by docachna »

There are clearly some unknown facts here, but I'm not expecting them to clear this up. I'm sure they've got a story -- I'm just not sure it's going to pass the smell test.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by M-Quigley »

Update: Murder charges

https://www.whio.com/news/trending/ahma ... C6KNDIGTM/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by Mr. Glock »

I thought we had solved that issue, of armed white southern civilians running down and “talking to” unarmed black civilians. Guess not. Unfortunate.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

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Difference being now, this got the light of day and everybody's reaction is what the heck? The GBI's presser on the arrest, the agent basically said I don't know why they didn't arrest, we had it 36 hours and it was pretty crystal to us based on the evidence. I don't know their hearts as to racism, but even the mother said she thought it was more to do with the guy being just retired from investigator for the prosecutor. The prosecutor in this has a lot to answer for and should be resigning in the next few days in my opinion. He had a duty, he failed. He should have kicked this out of his office the moment he saw it. The cops on scene should have made the arrest.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trey-gowd ... grand-jury

When a white conservative from the south reacts like Trey Gowdy, who BTW is a former prosecutor, that is progress on the white posse issue. He pretty much says this is scary that it took the video going viral for this to result in an arrest.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by Bruenor »

so was he part of the chase then...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urder.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The man who filmed the white ex-cop gun down Ahmaud Arbery may also face arrest in connection to the unarmed black jogger's murder, authorities have said.

At a press conference Friday, the director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation Vic Reynolds said William 'Roddie' Bryan could be arrested for his part in the murder after he watched and shot the footage of the attack.

It is not yet clear what Bryan, a neighbor of the McMichaels, could be charged with.
Ben Crump, an attorney for the victim's family, called for Bryan's arrest for aiding and abetting the McMichaels in Arbery's murder.

'This is William "Roddie" Bryan – who we believe may have been the third person in pursuit of #AhmaudArbery. If he chased down Ahmaud and filmed his execution, he should be arrested and charged with aiding and abetting them in committing this crime of murder.
Wonder what Arbery was prosecuted for previously.
It has also emerged that Gregory, who worked as an investigator in the Brunswick DA's office, helped prosecute Arbery in the past, Barnhill revealed.
Gregory and Travis have been charged with murder and aggravated assault for the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery (pictured)

Gregory and Travis have been charged with murder and aggravated assault for the shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery (pictured)

In a letter to Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr recusing himself from the case, Barnhill said his son and Gregory 'both helped with the previous prosecution of (Ahmaud) Arbery'.
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Ahmaud_Arbery

Read all about it...the wikipedia page has facts galore both reported and unreported.

Someone who may have been Arbery was on film entering a house "under construction". A 911 caller about the house was asked by the dispatcher if he committed a crime or broke in to which the caller stated something along the lines of "it's all open".

Arbery's criminal history amounted to shoplifting in 2018 and taking a pistol to a high school basketball game when he was 19 as well as a probation violation.

So there is more to the story as to the McMichaels tracking him down BUT it still highlights something we all need to learn when deciding to intervene with firearms...even if eventually the McMichaels are acquitted they have pretty much destroyed their lives. Watching the video, even considering the entering a house under construction...misdemeanor trespass once he has been warned not to come back. This should prove interesting.

Also the town's police chief was indicted for felonies involving misdeeds of the narcotics task force. The town has been sued regarding an officer who shot and killed an unarmed woman through a windshield and later killed his ex-wife. Those are just the highlights of the town LEO community.
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and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by Mr. Glock »

Whether or not Arbery had a criminal record, or whether or not he was the one who was on video trespassing (or even committing a property crime) at some point in the recent past (i.e. not in the act at that time), is irrelevant in this situation as we know it right now.

Let's assume the worst possible situation for Arbery. Let's say Arbery was committing property theft crimes in that area. And let's say he used his jogging route to case cars and homes for later break-in and theft at night, because you can't really steal a lot of stuff and hide it in your jogging shorts. As McMichael stated to the media, he didn't know for a fact if Arbery was the one doing it. But let's even assume McMichael had a strong suspicion backed by some facts, maybe even seeing Arbery leaving the house under construction empty-handed. We still don't get to leaving your own property armed, to go and "have a talk" with him, even making those hypothetical assumptions. This is property crime not in commission, it doesn't rise to the level of displaying or using deadly force.

Some states have looser laws on property crime and displaying a deadly weapon in response. But it gets mighty tenuous if it is not a crime in commission and even more so to chase down a suspect on a hunch.

IMHO Not a lawyer etc
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by DOA33 »

New video from a house across the street from the constriction site. Start at 13:30. He did go into the house and a neighbor from across the street stands there with phone watching. I guess Arbery saw him and ran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by Bruenor »

DOA33 wrote:New video from a house across the street from the constriction site. Start at 13:30. He did go into the house and a neighbor from across the street stands there with phone watching. I guess Arbery saw him and ran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lots of people go into construction sites to look around. Did that all the time as kids with houses being built in the neighborhood. technically trespassing which is what, a warning, maybe a ticket ? If nothing was damaged or stolen then I don't see an issue with looking at houses that are under construction if they are still open.
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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

- Thomas Paine

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Citizens Arrest case in point for caution

Post by JustaShooter »

Bruenor wrote:Lots of people go into construction sites to look around. Did that all the time as kids with houses being built in the neighborhood. technically trespassing which is what, a warning, maybe a ticket ? If nothing was damaged or stolen then I don't see an issue with looking at houses that are under construction if they are still open.
As I understand it, unless posted "No trespassing" it would be civil trespass *if* the owner could show damages (items stolen or damaged, as you said).

None of which, even if Criminal Trespass, warrants armed detention in Ohio, nor as I understand it, Georgia.
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