Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflict

A place for sharing news stories related to armed citizens, law enforcement & 2A/CCW topics.

Please note that when linking to an article you must cite the source URL and provide no more than a brief preview of the article to ensure fair-use standards are met.

NO DOCUMENT DUMPING.

Posts in violation of these rules are subject to immediate deletion without warning.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
M-Quigley
Posts: 4780
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflict

Post by M-Quigley »

https://www.whio.com/news/national/indi ... =cb_widget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although the shooter was not a licensed CCW person he might have a legit self defense claim, at least to a charge of attempted murder. I am not however a Indiana lawyer or legal expert nor am I taking a side. I only say "might have" because I've seen examples of it before being successful despite the illegal carrying. Whether it will work for the defendant in this particular situation or not IDK. Regardless, this wasn't a robbery or a mass shooting. This situation could've possibly been avoided. :(
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflic

Post by schmieg »

Kicking someone in the back can certainly result in serious bodily harm to raise the issue of defending one's self or another. The problem they will have, if Indiana law is similar to Ohio, is whether this was an escalation in the brawl and whether the two individuals should have withdrawn. I would certainly try to argue the issue in a trial.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
User avatar
catfish86
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 2571
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:44 pm

Re: Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflic

Post by catfish86 »

Now remove the judges position from the situation. Verbal altercation started by the Bell, Jacobs & Adams. Two guys get out of the vehicle. The drunks then come after the guys. Jacobs gets Kaiser on the ground starts pounding then stops. Vazquez tries to get Jacobs off Kaiser. Adams kicks Kaiser in the back who is apparently about to get kicked and beaten, pulls a gun and shoots the attackers. Now remember that Kaiser pulled into the parking lot and parked. If the restaurant was their destination this isn't a problem but does impact things.

For the judges: Jacobs gets a no bill from the grand jury, Adams gets indicted on 2 felonies and pleads to a single count of misdemeanor battery resulting in bodily injury, for kicking Kaiser. The rest of the charges were dismissed, and he was sentenced to a year in jail, with all but two of those days suspended. He was given credit for two days served and spent no time behind bars following the sentencing.

For the two guys:

Vazquez, who was ultimately charged with seven felony and misdemeanor crimes, took a plea deal and was sentenced Nov. 1 to 180 days of home confinement and a year of probation on one misdemeanor battery count and a probation violation, the Star reported. He was on probation at the time of the fight for a drunken driving conviction.

Marion County court records show that Kaiser, who is scheduled for trial in January, faces a total of 14 charges, including eight felony charges. The charges include aggravated battery, battery by means of a deadly weapon and carrying a handgun without a license.

I think some serious self-defense issues arise but ultimately even if successful they will hang the max sentence for the gun charge. It was charged for a Class A misdemeanor (which means his past record is clean BTW) which carries up to a year in jail.

Final note: the female judge made the comment it was her fault for being mouthy and she would never had done so if she thought the guy had a gun...yup. Robert Heinlein: an armed society is a polite society.
God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

Gun control is racist.
M-Quigley
Posts: 4780
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Re: Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflic

Post by M-Quigley »

catfish86 wrote: Final note: the female judge made the comment it was her fault for being mouthy and she would never had done so if she thought the guy had a gun...yup. Robert Heinlein: an armed society is a polite society.
I wonder how her intoxication played into her actions also. :roll: As Ron White once said,

"I had the right to remain silent but I did not have the ability."
docachna
Posts: 2175
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:26 am
Location: Mount Juliet TN

Re: Drunken Judges learn the hard way about avoiding conflic

Post by docachna »

M-Quigley wrote:

"I had the right to remain silent but I did not have the ability."
Long time since I worked the street.

Wish I had known that one when I was out there. :lol:
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
Post Reply