SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

A place for sharing news stories related to armed citizens, law enforcement & 2A/CCW topics.

Please note that when linking to an article you must cite the source URL and provide no more than a brief preview of the article to ensure fair-use standards are met.

NO DOCUMENT DUMPING.

Posts in violation of these rules are subject to immediate deletion without warning.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
gilly32
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 780
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:38 am
Location: Medina

SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by gilly32 »

The justices' action allows a lawsuit filed by parents of Sandy Hook Elementary School victims to move forward at the state level, on the allegation that Remington Arms Co. marketed the military-style rifle used in the mass shooting "for use in assaults against human beings."
The Connecticut Supreme Court ruled 4-3 in March that Remington can be sued because of the way the AR-15-style Bushmaster rifle was marketed. The families' lawsuit contends that Remington glorified the gun in advertising aimed at young people, including in violent video games.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 565344001/
"The right to keep and bear arms is rooted in both self-defense and insurance against government’s propensity toward tyranny. The right pre-existed the Constitution. Thus, the Second Amendment is not its source. The right to keep and bear arms is natural and inalienable; the Second Amendment protects it, and Congress has no legitimate power to restrict it." - Senator John Cornyn (R., Tex.), as reported in the National Review on July 4, 2016

Burma Shave
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by bignflnut »

4-3? Aren't we constantly told that Trump will bring us good SCOTUS pro RKBA decisions?
Where are the other 2?
What was the breakdown?
Can I guess that Roberts was the swing vote, that RGB was sick in March?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by JediSkipdogg »

bignflnut wrote:4-3? Aren't we constantly told that Trump will bring us good SCOTUS pro RKBA decisions?
Where are the other 2?
What was the breakdown?
Can I guess that Roberts was the swing vote, that RGB was sick in March?
4-3 was CONNECTICUT. The United States Supreme Court refused to hear the case, but that's no surprise. They only hear 100-150 of the more than 7000 cases that come before them annually. Trump really can't affect what they hear.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
mrbone
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by mrbone »

Any guesses why? The 2005 federal law is being interpreted not to apply to state courts, only federal lawsuits? Or you have to take it to trial first before applying the 2005 law to toss it out? Or SCOTUS wants to let it wind through the courts before ruling? Latter is very likely. They often decline to hear things until lower courts have been exhausted, including the appeals courts.
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by schmieg »

mrbone wrote:Any guesses why? The 2005 federal law is being interpreted not to apply to state courts, only federal lawsuits? Or you have to take it to trial first before applying the 2005 law to toss it out? Or SCOTUS wants to let it wind through the courts before ruling? Latter is very likely. They often decline to hear things until lower courts have been exhausted, including the appeals courts.
My guess is the allegation of the nature of the advertising is the reason and the Court wants to have that litigated below before deciding whether to take a position on the case.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
qmti
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:18 pm

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by qmti »

If the final outcome goes against Remington the floodgates will be open on all gun manufacturers lawsuits. And Bloomberg will be financing them.
User avatar
AlanM
Posts: 9435
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Was Stow, OH now Charlottesville, VA

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by AlanM »

There's a pretty good discussion of this case on Quora.

How do you see gun manufacturers changing now that the Supreme Court has cleared the way for families of Newtown shooting victims to sue gun maker Remington Arms Co.?

Scroll down to the answer by Brandon Ross, J.D.
It's long to be sure, but he brings up many valid points.
The way has not “been cleared” for victims to sue gun makers. What is notably absent from the article, is that most of the family’s claims were dismissed.

Except one. Which is a claim based on “wrongful marketing”. So, it won’t change much, because there isn’t much that can be changed. Skip to the very end to find out why.

To recap the facts: Nancy Lanza bought a Bushmaster rifle from Riverview Sales in CT. Two years later, her son Adam (age 20), stole her rifle, murdered her, then drove to a school, and murdered 20 first-graders and 6 staff members.

Every decent person agrees, Lanza committed heinous murders. And he is responsible for them. Except, he killed himself.

And so, we ask, “Was anyone else responsible for the murders?”

The parents of the murdered children say yes: Remington Arms is responsible.

Now, the astute reader will see that the rifle was a Bushmaster, not a Remington. Remington was not directly involved. (Many news outlets are incorrectly reporting that Bushmaster is made by Remington. This is incorrect; it’s a bit complicated.)

But they are suing Remington Arms anyway.
There's considerably more. IMHO it worth the time to read it all.
There are A LOT of people/businesses that don't want to see the parents win. A win would open a can of worms that would seriously change advertising in the US.
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by bignflnut »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
bignflnut wrote:4-3? Aren't we constantly told that Trump will bring us good SCOTUS pro RKBA decisions?
Where are the other 2?
What was the breakdown?
Can I guess that Roberts was the swing vote, that RGB was sick in March?
4-3 was CONNECTICUT. The United States Supreme Court refused to hear the case, but that's no surprise. They only hear 100-150 of the more than 7000 cases that come before them annually. Trump really can't affect what they hear.

Cert is granted when 4 justices agree to grant cert. 4 of 9
But Trump by nominating HIS justices, can't affect what they hear?
If he's appointed 2 justices, couldn't those two prioritize cases regarding RKBA? This would seem to have a large impact on the cases which gain cert?

If you don't believe that Trump appointing judges can affect what comes before SCOTUS, shouldn't we drop the notion that electing a POTUS to get a majority of SCOTUS is a reason to vote FOR someone?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
User avatar
AlanM
Posts: 9435
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:38 am
Location: Was Stow, OH now Charlottesville, VA

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by AlanM »

Now, the astute reader will see that the rifle was a Bushmaster, not a Remington. Remington was not directly involved. (Many news outlets are incorrectly reporting that Bushmaster is made by Remington. This is incorrect; it’s a bit complicated.)
I did a LITTLE research on this and I agree it's complicated.
Remington corporate DOES own the Bushmaster brand.
I don't know if they make the rifles, probably not in Remington facilities.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company

here's the NPR story: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/12/77848792 ... to-proceed
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by JediSkipdogg »

bignflnut wrote:Cert is granted when 4 justices agree to grant cert. 4 of 9
But Trump by nominating HIS justices, can't affect what they hear?
If he's appointed 2 justices, couldn't those two prioritize cases regarding RKBA? This would seem to have a large impact on the cases which gain cert?

If you don't believe that Trump appointing judges can affect what comes before SCOTUS, shouldn't we drop the notion that electing a POTUS to get a majority of SCOTUS is a reason to vote FOR someone?
Yes and know. Could they have a docket all year long of firearm cases, sure. But they have to weigh of all the cases they get a year how to encompass as many different areas of law as they can. They also have to look at how lower courts have agreed, or disagreed on the issue.

So in a case like this, I see nothing wrong with the Supreme Court not hearing this case. This actually wasn't even a case with a verdict, but deciding if a suit could be brought or not. IMO, no different that if you shoot someone in Florida and claim stand your ground if you can use stand your ground or not. Same as suing for a no gun sign in Ohio. Law says they have immunity, but that doesn't mean a suit can't be brought, a judge still has to determine if the immunity is allowed and then once that is factored in, how the case will move forward and if there is liability.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
bignflnut
Volunteer
Volunteer
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by bignflnut »

Leaving this case aside, as we largely agree...your point was that Trump cannot influence the cases SCOTUS hears.
Trump really can't affect what they hear.
I'm challenging that point, alone. The idea that Trump CAN/WILL influence SCOTUS in great ways is often used as a justification to vote for something they know isn't all that great.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by JediSkipdogg »

bignflnut wrote:Leaving this case aside, as we largely agree...your point was that Trump cannot influence the cases SCOTUS hears.
Trump really can't affect what they hear.
I'm challenging that point, alone. The idea that Trump CAN/WILL influence SCOTUS in great ways is often used as a justification to vote for something they know isn't all that great.
I think he can't influence what they hear so much as he can influence the outcome by picking people that align with his beliefs. As I said, sure, could he pick someone that only wants to hear firearm cases, sure. But what about the 4th amendment? What about the 8th amendment? What about cases of forfeiture, which by themselves have NOTHING to do with firearms, until they come to seize your firearms for failing to pay a speeding ticket and issue a warrant and say you are a fugitive from justice and demand that because you are a fugitive, they have the right to enter your property to get you. Therefore one must have a variety of topics they are going to hear. Hell, the baker case can even influence gun rights. Should Bass Pro or Cabellas be forced to sell a hi-point if the don't want to? Or transfer a firearm that is sent to them that they may deem is too dangerous to transfer?
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
User avatar
Bruenor
Posts: 7306
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:03 pm
Location: Geneva, OH

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by Bruenor »

bignflnut wrote:Leaving this case aside, as we largely agree...your point was that Trump cannot influence the cases SCOTUS hears.
Trump really can't affect what they hear.
I'm challenging that point, alone. The idea that Trump CAN/WILL influence SCOTUS in great ways is often used as a justification to vote for something they know isn't all that great.
It's not just about SCOTUS.. those cases need to pass through the lower courts first. The outcome of cases in the lower courts can surely have an effect on what cases can even make it to the supreme court.

From wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... nald_Trump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As of November 10, 2019, the United States Senate has confirmed 161 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including:
2 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States,
45 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals,
112 judges for the United States District Courts, and
2 judges for the United States Court of International Trade.[2]

There are currently 44 nominations to Article III courts awaiting Senate action, including
6 for the Courts of Appeals,
37 for the District Courts and 1 for the Court of International Trade.[3]

There are currently
2 vacancies on the U.S. Courts of Appeals,
87 vacancies on the U.S. District Courts,
2 vacancies on the U.S. Court of International Trade,[3] and
16 announced federal judicial vacancies that will occur before the end of Trump's first term (5 for the Courts of Appeals and 11 for District Courts).[4] Trump has not made any recess appointments to the federal courts.
7 appointments so far to the 9th circuit with 2 more pending that should change the makeup of that district court a bit.
Μολὼν λαβέ

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

- Thomas Paine

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

- Thomas Jefferson
147Doc
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: NE Cincinnati Metro Area

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by 147Doc »

I hope for every auto manufacturer who has every had one of their cars involved in a DUI fatality that this case does not go against Remington.

And even if the manufacturer did market it... the person who bought the rifle - was therefore the one influenced in this case - was not the shooter!

:roll:
User avatar
catfish86
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 2571
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:44 pm

Re: SCOTUS Won't Block Lawsuit Against Gun Maker

Post by catfish86 »

AlanM, that article is an EXCELLENT explanation if you want to get into the details. I am a paralegal/accountant. That the court is letting the lawsuit proceed (BTW, most of it is dismissed except for ONE claim). Remington argued the law precluded the claim and/or its a claim that can't be legally granted. There is an exception for advertising so that is not grounds to dismiss it. Now they have to prove that the advertising was designed in such a way to encourage the act, that the shooter actually saw the advertising AND that the advertising was the proximate cause of the shooting. BTW, the only possible way that I can see is the placement of the rifle in the video games which would then beg the question of why the video game makers were not also sued. If the video game makers are not sued, Remington can ask for the lawsuit to be dismissed for failure to join a necessary party (you can't just sue who you don't like when others took a part in it) and/or demand the video game makers be joined. Remington stands a good chance of having this dismissed under summary judgment (ie even taking the facts as you say they are you still can't win). The wrongful marketing is more likely to be successful if Remington was marketing their guns to mental patients or drug dealers..
God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

Gun control is racist.
Post Reply